Terragen 2 Paper Manual (Bible)

Started by DannyG, August 06, 2011, 01:44:25 PM

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AP

Which has not been updated in over ten years i think.    :P

plugsnpixels

It's sad to see a team and a product with so much potential just disappear.
Free digital imaging ezine
www.plugsandpixels.com

Oshyan

More or less the same thing happened with Animatek World Builder, Vista Pro, and more. I remember World Builder in particular having some interesting ideas as far as that generation of software.

- Oshyan

plugsnpixels

Unfortunately it's the nature of the business! I see this a lot with PS plug-ins, though it happens with all kinds of apps. I don't envy developers! Takes a special breed.
Free digital imaging ezine
www.plugsandpixels.com

Matt

Vista (on the Amiga, of course; the PC was pretty awful for graphics in the early 90s). Vista was a big inspiration for me, as well as other landscape generation experiments I saw in the early 90s. I don't know how much they were influenced by Musgrave and Mandelbrot, but I imagine they must have been, directly or indirectly. Later I saw Mandelbrot's 1982 book:

http://www.amazon.com/Fractal-Geometry-Nature-Benoit-Mandelbrot/dp/0716711869

I'd already got the bug before I found this book, but if I remember rightly it contained some great fractal mountain renders, probably by Ken Musgrave, which further inspired me. There was a picture that had steep fractal mountains surrounding a valley filled with white haze. I don't remember much more than that, but I am sure I must have learned a few things from Mandelbrot's book. But I don't think I actually read any of Ken's research until much later, except maybe what was in that book. If there were any rendering aspects to learn, I think they may have gone over my head or I was too lazy to try them, but I was developing methodologies for rendering terrains and atmospheres based on ideas I'd seen in Vista and other bits and pieces I picked up along the way. But I am sure Ken Musgrave's work made a big difference to what was happening all around. And since then I've read some of his work.

In these early days, I actually have just as strong a memory of thinking about global illumination - I didn't know what to call it back then, but I thought of it as "environment lighting" - but I didn't know about academic graphics research, and I didn't see it being done in 3D programs at the time. I understood why, because it would be computationally very expensive, but I dreamed that one day I could write my own renderer that could do this stuff. And now I have :)  But of course there's no end to the ways it could be improved.

At some point I got fascinated with the idea of rendering skies that were way beyond what Vista was capable of. Fractals were central to the rendering of clouds, so Mandelbrot and Musgrave were important as they were with terrains, but it was the lighting of atmospheres that really fascinated me, and that's where I thought the biggest leaps forward could be made. It almost looked like other programs didn't care about lighting and I couldn't understand why, but it was exciting to have ideas that I knew could make them better.

I'd always been interested in rendering planets in other 3D programs and it was only a matter of time before I tried to do the same with Terragen. About 2001 was when I decided to start. At that point of course I'd seen Ken's work on planets, and, you know, knowing that something is possible is half the battle - once you know it's possible, you just dive in and figure out how to do it. But the ideas for these things build over years, and I often don't remember where they come from. It's hard to really quantify how much influence someone's had, or even remember how much you've read, when looking back.

I suppose that if Mandelbrot hadn't defined fractals and Musgrave hadn't pioneered the rendering of them, maybe I would have been writing a general purpose renderer, fueled by those earlier dreams of "environment lighting". Maybe there isn't a huge difference, but general rendering is a hard space to be influential in because you're competing with many, many other similar products.

Matt
Just because milk is white doesn't mean that clouds are made of milk.

Matt

The ubiquity of the web these days is such a contrast to the insular environment that I did my experiments in all those years ago. What we have today is so much information available to us whenever we ask for it, it's hard to imagine how I figured anything out back then...

Matt
Just because milk is white doesn't mean that clouds are made of milk.

Henry Blewer

I used Vista, Vista Pro 3, Scenery Generator, and World Construction Set. WCS could take a week on one 640 x 400 render. They were fun to play with.
http://flickr.com/photos/njeneb/
Forget Tuesday; It's just Monday spelled with a T

Kadri

#22
Quote from: Matt on August 10, 2011, 08:26:23 PM
...but it was the lighting of atmospheres that really fascinated me, and that's where I thought the biggest leaps forward could be made. It almost looked like other programs didn't care about lighting and I couldn't understand why, but it was exciting to have ideas that I knew could make them better.
...
Matt

If i remember correctly , for a time in the early 2000 i thought no program could be better then "Animatek World Builder" or "World Construction Set" .
But the lighting of Terragen was really special those times too to me!
The others had so much more features but looked kind of advanced game renderer's or more painterly from that aspect.
Not that they were bad for their times but...

When i saw this page :
http://web.archive.org/web/20051212063346/http://www.planetside.co.uk/terragen/tgd/tgd.shtml

Images like the "Cloud Study at Washington Pass" or Luc and others work made me look at that page every day afterwards :)



Luc

hi

for "nostalgic" people (and others ;) ) I have put back some of my Terragen pictures here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/66188926@N03/sets/

luc

Quote from: Kadri on August 10, 2011, 09:31:06 PM

../..


Images like the "Cloud Study at Washington Pass" or Luc and others work made me look at that page every day afterwards :)



Terragen scenes & presets store
www.lucbianco.fr

AP

Hey it's Luc. It's  been a while    ;D

Tangled-Universe

Quote from: Matt on August 10, 2011, 08:26:23 PM

At some point I got fascinated with the idea of rendering skies that were way beyond what Vista was capable of. Fractals were central to the rendering of clouds, so Mandelbrot and Musgrave were important as they were with terrains, but it was the lighting of atmospheres that really fascinated me, and that's where I thought the biggest leaps forward could be made. It almost looked like other programs didn't care about lighting and I couldn't understand why, but it was exciting to have ideas that I knew could make them better.


Nice read Matt on how you got into developing TG2.

TG2 still has a leap when it comes to lighting in clouds and atmospheres, but also in fractals perhaps.
I don't know any out of the box packages which does these better, especially the biggest competitor is still inferior imo.

Search volumetric clouds on the web and you'll find very few really good looking examples except for some big buck productions or proprietary methods from studios (search "Red Baron" clouds for instance).

Quote from: Luc Bianco on August 11, 2011, 02:37:21 AM
hi

for "nostalgic" people (and others ;) ) I have put back some of my Terragen pictures here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/66188926@N03/sets/

luc


I consider myself "nostalgic", but that's actually for past tense of course and that remains to be seen, hopefully ;)

Cheers
Martin

reck

Quote from: Luc Bianco on August 11, 2011, 02:37:21 AM
hi

for "nostalgic" people (and others ;) ) I have put back some of my Terragen pictures here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/66188926@N03/sets/

luc

It's great to see some of your images again Luc. I never understood when you "retired" from Terragen why you removed your images from the web. Why not leave them online for everyone to enjoy your work\passion?

Also when are you going to come out of Terragen retirement and start creating some amazing images again?

Luc

Hi

Because I did not want to keep one "dead" site online and lot of my pictures were still available on some blogs, forums... (just test a images search with my name on google)

But I agree it is better to have them on one place. Now it is !

luc

Quote from: reck on August 11, 2011, 04:24:59 AM
It's great to see some of your images again Luc. I never understood when you "retired" from Terragen why you removed your images from the web. Why not leave them online for everyone to enjoy your work\passion?

Also when are you going to come out of Terragen retirement and start creating some amazing images again?
Terragen scenes & presets store
www.lucbianco.fr

schmeerlap

Has this "Terragen2 Paper Manual" thread been hijacked or what?

John
I hope I realise I don't exist before I apparently die.

Kadri

Quote from: Luc Bianco on August 11, 2011, 02:37:21 AM
hi
for "nostalgic" people (and others ;) ) I have put back some of my Terragen pictures here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/66188926@N03/sets/
luc

Luc , Reck did ask what i thought ! Good to have your images in one place again , thanks.
I hope we will see new ones too ;)

Eeee...yeah a manual in Book form or PDF would be good ::)....really !