"2D foliage mapped to actual 3D geometry"

Started by TheBadger, October 04, 2011, 01:27:01 AM

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TheBadger

Hello,

I was looking through old image posts when I came by this image and thread by Moodflow : http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=2537.0

If you take a look at the image you will see an incredible level of realism in the ground covering. Moodflow explains that he used "...2D foliage mapped to actual 3D geometry.  'I plugged the image map shader into a default shader, which gave control over diffusion, translucency, luminosity, and reflectivity' (all of which really add realism if done correctly)."

1) My first question is does anyone remember a thread link or tutorial someplace that will teach me how to use and understand image mapping?

2) Can anyone explain in depth What Moodflow has done in the thread I link to above?

I am pretty sure I have seen image mapping in lots of images around here, but nothing like what Moodflow has done that I know of. I would very much like to understand what and how he has done what he did in his image.

Please keep in mind when you answer this thread that I do not have any prior experience in this subject. My hope is that its another thing that just seems complex, but is in reality a simple matter, TG2 is pretty good about that ;)

Thank you.
It has been eaten.

rcallicotte

Moodflow was very creative, so his processes are better explained if he could do the explanation.  But, I'll look around here today to see if I can find something to help.
So this is Disney World.  Can we live here?

TheBadger

Thank you for your interest and any help calico! Yes I would like it if Moodflow could stop by, but I hope that I will find all my answers even if he is busy  :)

So this is where I am at in understanding image mapping... Basically I have only an abstract understanding so far. An image map is a file such as a jpeg or tiff that is imported into a 3D program like TG2. The image contains visual information that can be used (somehow?) to direct and or control the appearance of other data. In the case of Terragen2 image maps are used to texture surfaces, and as masks (what else?).

Additionally image maps can be used in the manner Moodflow has used them (see above) to actually provide 3d information.

So building on my original 2 questions (still need answers)... What types of image maps can be used in terragen, what file formats are best suited for image maps, what is the method for importing, after importing then what, is what moodflow did considered advanced, what is considered a simple use of image maps, how do you use an image map as a mask, and what is the process for using an image map (and what kind of images) in the way that moodflow did?

I know its a lot of questions for one thread. But I think its better to be able to find as much information as possible, on any given subject, in one place.

Thank you again for any help :)

It has been eaten.

Dune

The best way to get to grips with this is to test it. Use tiff, jpg (color or gray) for your image map shader, try the different projections and sizes you can set, and attach the image map shader to the color input of child input of a test surface layer. Or to the blending input, or the displacement input. Just trying it all out is really the best.

rcallicotte

Some similar subjects to give you a start to experiment -

http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=11101.0
http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=10640.0

RArcher has some very good ground cover around somewhere and it costs a little $$ to get the file(s).  His work would definitely help your research.
So this is Disney World.  Can we live here?

TheBadger

@ Dune,
Hi, thanks and yes you are right, experimenting often leads to the best understanding, however it is never the fastest. I will be happy to experiment on my own ones I know some basics and some parameters.

For example, How do I get an image map into TG, is an image map just a clip file? Import Clip file, select .jpeg and bam? Or what?
It has been eaten.

TheBadger

Quote from: calico on October 06, 2011, 08:55:28 AM
Some similar subjects to give you a start to experiment -

http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=11101.0
http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=10640.0

RArcher has some very good ground cover around somewhere and it costs a little $$ to get the file(s).  His work would definitely help your research.

Thank you very much calico! These links look like they have lots of useful information. And each link has multiple other links that seem to lead to more information of the same subject! I will look through all of it, do some tests, and revise my questions.
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Dune

If you rightclick in the node field and choose 'image map shader' it will automatically have a popup asking for the file. So you enter a file. If it's square, enter 2 identical values in the size field, otherwise keep its ratio. If you want it 100x100m tell it so. But keep in mind that the larger area you want to cover, the larger (more detailed) the image file needs to be. If you want it to be projected at a location away from 0/0/0, set it, otherwise leave it 0/0/0. Set projection to Y for a start and attach the shader to a child of a surface shader. See what happens, work from there.

TheBadger

Thanks Dune!

Just a note for this thread: Following Dunes instructions on a mac, right click and then select "create shader" then "Displacement shader" then "Image map shader".

I used an image from this thread for my first attempt http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?PHPSESSID=fdcc073f924ae32981fa0b1f088ebecd&topic=10640.0

At least now Im in the game! Thanks again Calico and Dune, and everyone who contributed to those other threads.

It has been eaten.

TheBadger

Galactic Vandal

Ok in this one I did every thing the same as the last. But rather than the image map rising up, it cut into the ground. What did I do wrong?
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bla bla 2

#10
How create of mask by image map shader with several image map shader ?

For altitude and differant texture ?

Thank you.

---

Comment on créer plusieurs masque avec plusieurs images maps shader ?
Avec l'altitude et differant texture ?

Merci.

Dune

QuoteWhat did I do wrong?
Negative displacement perhaps? Try a larger positive displacement or merge with your terrain settings (raise highest) and then raise your image mask until it comes up.

QuoteHow create of mask by image map shader with several image map shader ?
Just blend these image masks by different distribution shaders.

TheBadger

I spoke with Moodflow in a pm the other day. He said he is busy with work right now, but would stop by when he gets a chance. Hope soon, really want to understand how he did what he did.

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TheBadger

Hello,

Please consider the image above with the water.
In that image the space in meters between land forms is massive, the land forms them selves are also massive. If I wanted the distance between each land form to be only, say 5-10 feet across, and the land forms themselves to be only 5-8 feet high, how do I go about this?

I tried playing playing with "size" and "displacement amplitude" in the image map shader but was not getting what I expected.

Thank you
It has been eaten.

Dune

How do you mean, you didn't get what you expected? It should work with a much smaller image map size (0.01 or so perhaps) and much smaller displacement (x0.01).