"Real World Scale"

Started by TheBadger, March 19, 2012, 02:32:16 PM

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TheBadger

Hello,

In more than a few recent threads, people have been using the phrase "real world scale". I understand this idea. But I find it difficult sometimes to keep my terrains in shape. Would any of you mind sharing you practices for ensuring that your terrain features are realistic.
I realize this is probably a very broad question, just need a little guidance is all.
It has been eaten.

elipsis1

I thought that using a power fractal for a procedural terrain would address most of this issue?

I do see that sometimes when applying color, that is where scale can be thrown off.

Strictly a gray power fractal terrain seems to be pretty realistic as far as scale goes.

But, I am a n00b, and probably need to pay attention to what the experts have to say on this!

:o

choronr

#2
Quote from: TheBadger on March 19, 2012, 02:32:16 PM
Hello,

In more than a few recent threads, people have been using the phrase "real world scale". I understand this idea. But I find it difficult sometimes to keep my terrains in shape. Would any of you mind sharing you practices for ensuring that your terrain features are realistic.
I realize this is probably a very broad question, just need a little guidance is all.

For me, I just rely on eye judgement and a couple of cropped, quick renders to get things right - that's probably why it takes me a few weeks to complete a render. BTW Badger, unless I've missed them, I haven't seen some of your renders.

Kevin F

It's not essential to use real world scales but it does help when using imported objects to size everything on the same scale. The inbuilt measuring tool is very useful for this. I often use it to measure the actual distance from the camera to an object or land feature. You can also use the sphere object to compare real sizes in a scene, the sphere being 1 meter diameter by default, this is also a good way to obtain local x,y,z coordinates when placing objects. Simply create a sphere (it automatically appears directly in front of the camera), copy its coordinates, delete the sphere and paste the values into your objects.
I had problems early on with a scene that I just couldn't get right. I found out  my scales were way out, (rock sizes of hundreds of meters etc.) since then I tend to use real word values if I can.

dandelO

#4
Badger. I think the best way to ensure real world scale from the start of every project is to set your default render camera to a sensible height above the ground. I'm not sure where the actual default TG camera starts but it's well into the 100s of metres in height mark, at least.
My default project(easily set in the preferences) has a camera at 30m above the ground, with a 100m2 heightfield bounding box for scale reference. All objects start in the lower-centre of my scale reference and I usually build a scene around this camera, the camera rarely moves at all from start to finish, save for minor adjustments to create the final pov, which in my boring brain, usually turns out to be at roughly eye-level, 2m, above the ground. :D
Looking always 'North' means I have a good grasp on angles(sunlight, rotation values, etc.) and directions to create a scene.

Here's a screenshot of where I start everything from...
[attachimg=#]

Hetzen

#5
I think it really does depend on how TG is being used in a workflow. Keeping things to actual scale helps with transfering cameras between apps. I tend to use a sphere as a scale reference, with a radius of 200m for mountain work and a 1m for closer in. Some people use imported models.

I'm using heightfields (HF) more and more these days, as I can get great erosion effects into the terrain with external apps. I can place these features where I like and scale them to what ever looks right. You can quite easily create a HF from anything you've made procederaly in TG, by plugging your network into a generate HF node. You need to make sure the generate position is the same as your HF shader.

jo

Hi,

You could use Landmark objects to help you with scale. Landmarks don't show in final renders so you can stick them all over the place as reference points. Set the scale of the Landmark to 1.8m or 2m to make it more or less person sized. You could try putting them in the foreground and further away to get an impression of distance.

The arrow might be the best shape to use for a human stand-in. I should think about adding a human model.

Regards,

Jo

jamfull

I've been using Mr_Lamppost's stickman for scale reference.

James

microwar

I miss the old thing from earlyer versons, where 1 copy of the population showed up at 0.0.0.
it was easy to scale the different things that way.

Not shure what version this was removed, but i think it was when the object wireframe was implemented.

TheBadger

@Kevin F
Thank you. I completely forgot about the measure tool! I know its dumb. But I get so focused on something in TG I forget about all my options.

@DandelO
Are you able to fix the cameras position so that no mater what you do to the terrain it is always the 6ft above the terrain in that location, and not fixed to the exact hight and place on a blank sphere? I always end up having to re position my camera when I change seed values. Is there away to make the camera rise and fall 6ft above the terrain as it changes while working, automatic.

@jo
QuoteI should think about adding a human model
This would really make things easier. It does not have to be very detailed, nothing more than what you get in goole sketch up. But the ability to place many of the figures would really be great. The figure does not even have to be full 3d.

@choronr
Hi,
I have some stuff posted here, just search the image section for my posts. Or look on the first page of this section of the forum. I have a wip there now.

@jamfull
I tried that too, but couldn't make it work. This was a while ago and I was very new to TG2. Thanks for reminding me about it, but as I remember now the figure was very abstract. I will try again.

Thanks all! It really does help.
It has been eaten.

dandelO

No, in TG 0.9 there was an option to set the height above the surface but not in TG2.
What I do is, add my fractal terrain, right-click and hold in the 3D preview, this gives you a new set of coordinates relating to the camera position(vheight). Now, if this is a negative number, you are below the planet surface by that amount in metres, above it if it is a positive. When I have that vheight number, I visit the displacement tab of the terrain and adjust 'displacement offset' by that number, plus or minus 2m, to keep my camera position and move the entire terrain up or down. :)

reck

Quote from: TheBadger on March 20, 2012, 01:26:44 PM

Are you able to fix the cameras position so that no mater what you do to the terrain it is always the 6ft above the terrain in that location, and not fixed to the exact hight and place on a blank sphere?

That would be a nice setting to have. Can it be added to the feature request list?

jo

Hi,

Quote from: reck on March 23, 2012, 09:18:56 AM
That would be a nice setting to have. Can it be added to the feature request list?

This is something we have been talking about ourselves.

Regards,

Jo

bobbystahr

Quote from: Kevin F on March 19, 2012, 03:20:12 PM
It's not essential to use real world scales but it does help when using imported objects to size everything on the same scale. The inbuilt measuring tool is very useful for this. I often use it to measure the actual distance from the camera to an object or land feature. You can also use the sphere object to compare real sizes in a scene, the sphere being 1 meter diameter by default, this is also a good way to obtain local x,y,z coordinates when placing objects. Simply create a sphere (it automatically appears directly in front of the camera), copy its coordinates, delete the sphere and paste the values into your objects.
I had problems early on with a scene that I just couldn't get right. I found out  my scales were way out, (rock sizes of hundreds of meters etc.) since then I tend to use real word values if I can.

great trick for object placement with a sphere...rarely if ever use a sphere so wasn't aware they jump in, in camera view...thanks for that Kevin
something borrowed,
something Blue.
Ring out the Old.
Bring in the New
Bobby Stahr, Paracosmologist

bobbystahr

Quote from: jo on March 19, 2012, 08:02:24 PM
Hi,

You could use Landmark objects to help you with scale. Landmarks don't show in final renders so you can stick them all over the place as reference points. Set the scale of the Landmark to 1.8m or 2m to make it more or less person sized. You could try putting them in the foreground and further away to get an impression of distance.

The arrow might be the best shape to use for a human stand-in. I should think about adding a human model.

Regards,

Jo
another great tip...I tend to not remember the landmark tool as much as I was pleased to see it initially...some times these 63 yr old gray cells just need re booting I guess...thanks for the boots folks
something borrowed,
something Blue.
Ring out the Old.
Bring in the New
Bobby Stahr, Paracosmologist