Hawks

[rcallicotte]

http://www.ssec.wisc.edu/news/articles/589

Love it.

[TheBadger]

I like it because they kill pigeons. There are almost no pigeons here, but I see hawks every single day. Its the best kind of bio-warfare

[jo]

I don't like pigeons either :-). I don't object to urban pigeons like some people do, but pigeons annoy me because of the cooing! Such an inane noise. When I used to live in an old farmhouse there lots of pigeons in the trees around the house, right outside my bedroom, and it drove me nuts. I have to say that I've enjoyed a pigeon pie thanks to my air rifle. These were country pigeons so they were grain fed and delicious. There aren't any pigeons where I live now, too high up, but a farmer friend has invited me to clear them out of some barns so there could be a few more pies in the offing :-).

I have to say I do like our native pigeons (NZ wood pigeons):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_Pigeon

and of course don't shoot those, only the introduced pigeons (rock pigeons).

We get a lot of hawks around here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swamp_Harrier

I was watching some flying round today in fact. They sometimes land in a dead tree across the valley. I'm not sure they would go for pigeons but I have come across quite a few collections of fur and bones from rabbits or hares that must have been a hawk. They look quite similar to those red tail hawks. I've never seen a nest though.

Regards,

Jo

[TheBadger]

out of curiosity, what does pigeon taste like? Is it a dark meat?

Hey jo, even NZ pigeons look like lord of the rings animals! The pigeons I see here, look like rats with wings. Im pretty sure they are an invasive species too.

GO Hawks!

[jaf]

I used to feel the same way; rats with wings.  But I had the opportunity to raise a couple pigeons and saw how they, both the male and female, took care of their young, I got a different perspective.

They are "rats with wings" but we (humans) have created the environment they are forced to fit into.  They don't have the beaks or talons to compete with the hawks and crows, so they try to fit in and "just make a living" like all animals.  They carry diseases, like most of us, and are not as clean as we wish, but they are a part of our world.  There are plenty of examples of lifeforms on earth that don't meet our opinion of "whats clean" but are necessary for a "balance of nature." 

Take humans out of the equation and pigeons wouldn't would be extinct or fit in some way.  Humans interfere with natures way of balancing thing.

Just my view. 

[TheBadger]

I checked the DNR web site for my State. Where I live pigeons are an invasive species. Red tail Hawks are native.

Here, these pigeons are also called Rock Doves.
To tell you the truth, for an invasive animal, pigeons don't do much harm. But its still unnatural for them to be here.

So if you support a natural environment, the pigeons will have to die. Sorry.

Support the home team! Go Hawks Go!

[Matt]

So if you support a natural environment, the pigeons will have to die. Sorry.

What about the humans? In most places they're an invasive species too

[TheBadger]

So if you support a natural environment, the pigeons will have to die. Sorry.

What about the humans? In most places they're an invasive species too

Ha! Thats both funny and deep
If we are an Invasive species as put forth in the movie Prometheus, I am sure that the zombie Apocalypse will balance us out. Although, we could be like wolves, and just have a very large territory, wolves that can build tanks that is.

But thats the problem with animals when you think about it. If they were smart the pigions would evolve the ability to invent weapons to kill its enemies with. But then again macroevolution is non-sense.

[Kadri]

...But then again macroevolution is non-sense.

You reminded me a religious guy that wrote
" Are there still guys living in this age in Evolution?" in a newspaper a couple of weeks ago here.
This is probably one of the same guys some of the Western  people fear for irrational Muslim fundamentalism.
He is for anti-gun control too probably!

If all would think rationale and scientific oriented we would have still problems maybe.
But i doubt that there would be the same amount.

I am still amazed how blind and irrational people can be ... in this age !
Science is about changing, searching the truth.
All religions found the truth for more the 1000 years ago already,
so fuck all scientist close the schools only mosque , church etc. will be enough to save our midi-chlorians...ahem souls !

I am tired of seeing simple minded people-children in the school that think they know everything.

And the worst ones are the simple minded intellectuals .
Because they look like they know something.

We have them in abundance here.
They are forming the schools like they "believe" now as i write here.
And they do not believe in evolution (don make the argument micro or macro it is only a bolt ) too.
If they could see how much they are the same in principle (all the religious guys) .
Simple minded strict guys (to say the least) like the ones who burned Giordano Bruno!
Only 400 years ago. It is much closer then as it looks at first.
These are the same guys who don't like evolution.
It is only a different chapter.

Everything i see says me that we have unfortunately a long way to go ,
until all this nonsense goes away if we do not go the scientific way.


Edit: It is off topic sorry , calico ! Thus i will not post on this thread along these things more.

[TheBadger]

Nice rant Kadri! I enjoyed it, but since it seemed directed at me I will respond.

You talk about faith like its a fools joke, yet you promote and defend evolution. This is very strange to me because, to believe in evelution you must have faith.

Being unproven by the standards of science, belief in evolution constitutes a faith.
That does not mean evolution is not true, just that its as much a religion as anything else. Until it is proven.
Of course its likely that you'll die of old age before any proof can be found. But then you will either find your self in an after life or you won't, and at least one thing will be known for sure, or not.

It is a scientific fact, that evelution is not fact, but theory. A very interesting and compelling theory for sure. But not fact. It therefor must be taken on faith.

So then its a question of what faith is better.
Well, you and others mentioned the killings of innocent people, and say the world will be better without religion.
But did you know that you can have Darwinism without Naziism, but that you cannot have Naziism without Darwin? How many did the nazis kill again? How about communism? Religion is a joke to communists too, how many died under Mao and stallen? So your position really does not make much sense.

As for me, I find no conflict between my faith and the natural world. I am quite at peace. I believe both in the existence of the supreme being (deity), and I believe in science as a method to explain and make use of the natural world.

You however sounded in your last post like a fanatic.
Then again, I have always been free to chooce my own path. No one screams at me several time a day to neal down and pray. If they did, I would probably feel like you do.

*Go Hawks Go!

[Kadri]

This is what makes me tired.
I teach some of the things you think i do not get like what a theory is, what fact is and what faith is.
I have forgotten how much times i explained them and thus i am getting reluctant to answer in places like here.

There is kind of a language barrier and not to be possible to talk directly makes it harder.
We can not deal with all the problems in one post...if at all!
Religion is one of the problems ,and ideology ,economy etc. are the others that are very closely related.

I know your stance so or so TheBadger and i know it is not possible to change your view.
It was really more kind of a rant because i see only the rising of the religious fundamentalism around me unfortunately.
But they have more in common in guys like you or any other religious guy.
They are mostly guys like you that have the upper hand here now!
That is the irony !

But fanatic? 20 years ago i would said yes , but now; no !
Only a guy who do think that believing in a "super duper marvel like being" is a little childish , so to speak.
And i know (believe  ) that people will have always different views .
And the most nice moments i had as a teacher were 2 very intelligent teenagers that had religious believes .
It was very pleasant to argue with them

So what i only try really hard is pushing for  " tolerance  " !     

[TheBadger]

So what i only try really hard is pushing for  " tolerance  " !     

I'm confused.
Are you saying that I'm just like a Muslim fundamentalist child, and that your trying to tolerate me?
Are you saying that your faith in science is superior to my faith?

I did not say you do not get what faith is. I was saying you should not condemn me having faith, when you clearly also believe in things you can't prove.

I'v spent most of my adult life around teachers. Telling me your a teacher does not add wait to your arguments.

Yes, it is hard to have a real conversation this way. And I do prefer the company of people who see the world differently then I do. Most of my life, my best friends have never agreed with me, or I them, on philosophical matters. I don't know why, but I like to be around people who are different from me. Life is more interesting that way, I think.
Anyway, if you are laying down personal attacks, or just debating, I can't tell.

[Kadri]

Maybe the problem is that i write some things in general and some for you.
It looked for me that you write in the same way but hard to know.
Yeah it can get confused.
This is what i mean of debating here.

"So what i only try really hard is pushing for  " tolerance  " !   is a general statement that we all need to be , a religious , atheist or what not person.
Not directly at you , TheBadger .

Telling that i am a teacher was only meant that i know what those things mean, not to underline that what i think is right.
That would be absurd because i have more ahem...stupid teachers then you think  around me unfortunately! Yeah not nice to write but...
I wouldn't trust some professor too only because that he is a professor...

And no they are not meant as personal attacks . I thought you know me by now TheBadger 

[TheBadger]

Just making sure Kadri! I like to know when I should swing

I dont have any problem with atheists or agnostics.
I just got a little uncomfortable with your suggestion that all religion, and therefore all religious people are the same. Which I have not found to be the case at all. And also, that somehow, atheism leads to a more civil society, which I have also not found to be true.

I think that your country is very different from mine, Kadri. And I have visited yours, but when will you visit mine?
I would host you. But you would probably rather see a different place.

[Kadri]

I barrely can make the next month all the time since years because of mortgage etc.
If i can handle our house economy (i suck at economy... this is one of the reason i can not post in your "Why the Meltdown Should Have Surprised " how should i post about global economy  ) where i want it to be, i would love to see other countries .

The first one would be Germany where i was in my childhood . Then who knows TheBadger And thank you !