Some really amazing 3d work here!

[TheBadger]

This just blew me away! I hope to get this good for my non traditional printing.
If you scroll to the bottom of the OP there are 2 links to color versions. Could just read the post too:)
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=1043278&utm_source=cgsociety&utm_medium=cgchoice&utm_term=1043278

Wish someone would make an old man model like this for renderosity. I need one for my maze world project;)
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=1051008&utm_source=cgsociety&utm_medium=cgchoice&utm_term=1051008

Take a look a walli's threads in open too, for non tg2 landscapes.

TG2 can do better than this. Don't you agree? Very inspirational image though, I think.
http://forums.cgchannel.com/showthread.php?t=15039

So what do you think? If you had all of the elements that are in these images, could you make a render in TG2 that looks as nice?
I'm lead to believe, rightly or wrongly, that we just need sub surface scattering to get images with objects that look like the image links. Is that true?


If you have seen some nice stuff post a link, I want to see more!

[Dune]

Strangely the third link gave me a warning by Avast as a malware site. So take care!

[TheBadger]

hmmmm. I found the image from cg channel's website. So either I went on a fake website, or your virus program is giving false positives. Both seem possible these days.

What are your thoughts about my question?!

[Oshyan]

Subsurface Scattering is definitely a factor for the old man render, but I don't really see it at play in the others.

- Oshyan

[TheBadger]

Oshyan,

So would you say that, if you had all the models in image one, and could get them in to tg2, that you could render an image that looks the same? My guess is yes, but I would need to do a good bit of post; color, contrast and such.

SSS is really only for close up stuff, and then really only for objects, is that right? I mean, you don't really need it for terrain, for what TG2 is mostly made for, right?

I'm just trying to get to grips with all of this, lots of this stuff is still very new to me. I want to start making and adding figures to my renders. And from what I have seen, people and Interiors are really the only things that TG2 does not seem to handle very well. Interiors don't concern me too much right now. But close ups with human models do interest me a great deal.
of course, I have seen Interiors and human models in tg2 renders, and they looked pretty good, but not like from some other renderers. I am mostly guessing that this in large part, has to do with SSS.

*With the new feachers coming to us in 2.5 complex foreground compositing will become much more viable. But its not much work to add an object to a tg2 scene (usually). Compositing however, can be a great deal more work. And I would rather just add an object then composite one from a different renderer.
So thats my thinking on this. Please correct me anyplace I am going wrong here. (anyone)

[Oshyan]

SSS, Sub-Surface Scattering, is only for materials that have some amount of translucency to them. Practically speaking there are relatively few real-world landscape environments where this is a factor, the most significant one being ice. Characters, on the other hand, where you're often trying to simulate realistic skin, definitely need SSS to look their best. But TG's not oriented toward dealing with that particular problem.

In the first image, it's largely architectural. Not really something that TG is designed for either. I think TG could create a competent likeness, but it would be challenging (and possibly involve high render times) to exactly duplicate that image in terms of lighting and reflections (you'd probably have to use hi GI, maybe GI Surface Details, and probably crank up the Ray Detail Multiplier to 1). If that's the kind of scene you want to do, where there are no significant landscape or population-type elements, I don't think it really makes sense to use TG for it (though some people seem to enjoy the challenge of using TG for things it's not explicitly designed to do ).

Regarding why models may look different/better in other apps vs. TG, there are quite a lot of possible factors, with SSS being a contributing one, but not even necessarily the most significant. Things like hair systems or cloth systems, or special anisotropic shaders, can make as big a difference or greater. TG doesn't have any of that and isn't likely to any time soon as they're just not really needed for the kinds of problems TG is trying to tackle. So again, if character close-ups, cityscapes, etc. are your interest, TG may not be appropriate for those needs.

I realize however that often times your interest may lie somewhere in-between and there it can become a challenge; where you want to make an image with, say, a great forest and tree, but with a well-rendered character resting beneath. There is no one "right" way to do everything, each scene may require different approaches, so the best thing you can do is have a good understanding of the strengths and weaknesses of various tools, and have working knowledge of each, so you can make the best of each application at your disposal.

- Oshyan

[TheBadger]

Great reply Oshyan! TY.

On your forth paragraph, yes!. It is the middle ground I am getting lost/indecisive on. TG2 solved (in theory) a ton of practical problems for me.
For example. Because of TG2, I can now create (in theory ) any real world environment. No need to wish I had money for a location shoot!

But then there is this issue of the foreground. Do I green screen or animate? Do i HAVE to composite, or can I pull of a render.
2.5 sounds like it will fix any compositing issues though. z-pass will make composites take on TG2 atmo effects much more realistically! But Its hard for me to imagine getting the atmo/object interaction as clean and real as a in TG render.

I'll keep on trucking though! Ill figure this out yet

[Oshyan]

Sounds good. Keep in mind these are problems that everyone struggles with, from amateur and hobbyist right up to the professionals. When you want top-quality results, you ultimately need to put in more time and work to achieve them, and that often involves multiple applications and compositing. Either that or you accept a compromise somewhere along the line. People who work in high-end dedicated 3D apps like Maya and Max tend to have a much harder time creating a variety of realistic landscapes, for example, while hardcore TG2 users sometimes lament the challenges of rendering more complex objects within the boundaries of TG2's present capabilities. Ultimately the best thing you can do, if you have the time, patience, and knowledge, is make use of the best parts of multiple programs. That's what the pros do, and clearly it works because they get top-notch results.

- Oshyan

[TheBadger]

Its good advice Oshyan. And its free! So I'll take it

I'll be posting some renders soon for feedback, so hopefully all of my questions will start to look a lot less random. Since just about everything I have ever asked in these forums has gone into a project at some level.