Feature & Improvement Suggestions #2

[PCook]

This is set #2 of Feature & Improvements Sugegstions. Learning from last time, I feel it necessary to mention that these suggestions are not intended to diminish the excellence of Terragen 2, and they are not my personal shopping list. Rather, these are features that I feel would improve design workflow, reduce time loss deriving renders that the user is targeting, and improve the project file as a resource for future TG work by the original author and others.
-Pat

1. The developers might want to review when the preview redraws and not redraw the preview when settings are made that do not directly change the image *visually*. The logic here is to avoid losing the more detailed preview when possible.

2. Highlight the "copy current camera..." button (lower left of preview area) something like red or yellow to make it more noticeable to the user that the camera position/settings have changed.

3. Indicate on the render window (in upper status line) which render profile is in use during rendering, such as "Full Render", "Quick Render", etc.

4. Provide a "clear" button to clear errors and warnings from the error/warnings window. The logic is that if a user has a) addressed the situation or b) the user chooses to ignore the situation, then the user should be able to clear the messages that have been displayed. (If the error/warning reoccurs, then put the event back on the error/warning list, which the user can clear again if so chooses.)

5. Update the preview when changing base colors. In other words, refresh the preview window *while* working with the color picker.

6. Provide a timed auto save, ideally with a duration that the user decides, such as 10 minutes. At least a fixed time auto save allowing user to turn on/off the fixed timed auto save. Also, allow user to turn off the auto backup on save.

7. Add a render history text log that logs render time, length, polygon count and basic settings such as image width/height and quality. Allow user to clear this render log with confirmation. Don't log renders that were aborted by user before finishing.

8. Provide the ability for the user to attach a text note to nodes, which is saved with the project (and exported with the node). The note could be managed in the settings window of the node. This text note could also be used as a copyright notice if a node is exported.

9. In the "Project Settings"; a) Change the word "written" to something that doesn't imply a human hand, such as "program" or "IDE" (PlanetSide could also place its company logo here), b) add a field for a user-written copyright statement, c) add an non-modifiable project created date stamp field and even a "last edited" date stamp, d) remove the "Edit Internal Network" and "Centre node in network" button because these functions don't apply here, e) what value is the "Current Frame" etc. without the animation module? Also provide a "permitted use" field where the author can convey in what way the TDG can be used by others, if at all. Add a menu item for "Project Settings" under the "Project" menu.

10. Add a histogram that allows user to judge if an image will have over/under exposed portions of the scene. As it is now, the user doesn't know exposure measurements until the image is rendered (which could be very time consuming) and viewed in Photoshop in terms of its exposure. Provide some level of predicting exposure in Terragen, even if not as precise as in Photoshop – a "best guess" histogram would be fine to start.

11. Add a button on the render window such as "Stop/Restart Render". This button would allow the user to stop a render (with confirmation if the full render) and then Terragen would immediately restart a new render. This would be helpful in situations where a settings was changed during a render and/or the render is a cropped area where the user is tweaking that portion of the image.

12. Password protect a TDG (at user's choice) to prevent a TDG from either being opened (locked), or being edited (read-only). How about self destruct if the wrong password is entered in 10 or more times? I suspect that there are corporations that use Terragen where a TDG in the wrong hands is a high-stakes risk.

[jo]

Hi Pat,

Thanks for the feedback. I'll just address the ones I have comments on.

1) This is something we're planning to address.

5) Apart from being a bit tricky to implement at the moment, I'm not sure this would work very well. You could still be waiting some time for the preview to update as changes were made and in more complex scenes the time to render the preview could affect the interactivity of the colour picker. This might be more feasible if the preview was multithreaded.

6) This has been requested for a while. We will probably reassess this for the next major version. Regarding the creation of backup files when saving a project, you can already turn this off in the File Saving panel of the preferences.

You can use a Note node for this sort of thing. I don't think it's something every node needs. In a future release you can add comments and things when you save clip files so you can use that for copyright notices etc.

10) We've talked about having a histogram in the past, it might be added in a future version. I don't know about having one before an image is rendered though, I imagine you'd virtually need to render it to get accurate information. If you're worried about exposure save renders as EXR and adjust them in Photoshop or similar.

The preview does have exposure controls BTW. That's what the +/- icon in the bottom left is for. It's linked to the Camera node exposure parameter.

11) I'm not quite sure what you're talking about here. You can already do what I think you're saying. When you stop a render the "Stop" button becomes a "Render" button, which you can click to immediately start rendering again.

You can pause and resume a render. You could alter settings while it was paused but I'm not sure that would be a wise idea. You might get away with it, or it might give unpredictable results including crashing. The safest way is to stop the render, make the changes and restart the render, cropping if there is a particular area you're interested in.

You should not change settings during rendering. Again this can give unpredictable results including crashing. I know it's possible to make changes but it really isn't a good idea.

Regards,

Jo

[Upon Infinity]

I know this has been covered before, and I know about the animation work around, but focal blur would be high on my list, I just can't remember what the reason was, it might not be possible to implement.  I know that Terragen is a different kind of renderer and that could be the reason.  Someone'll have to refresh my memory.

[PCook]

Thanks for your response Jo. I appreciate that PlanetSide is considering these suggestions.

You can use a Note node for this sort of thing. I don't think it's something every node needs. In a future release you can add comments and things when you save clip files so you can use that for copyright notices etc.

The note node can't be locked to a particular node. It's fine as an annotation in the Node Network, but is too free-roaming to act as a node note. I was suggesting a note field in most nodes so that an author is able to record thoughts or future reminders about the individual node construct. Much like in-line commenting of software code. What was the reason for that setting? What was that workaround? As you know, creative people use Terragen with lots of ideas that they can't possibly remember over time - allow ideas to be recordered at the level where the idea might be relevant. Some nodes would not need a note field, such as a merge type node. The idea is to allow authors to embed statements that jog memory when revisting the project at a later date.

We've talked about having a histogram in the past, it might be added in a future version. I don't know about having one before an image is rendered though, I imagine you'd virtually need to render it to get accurate information. If you're worried about exposure save renders as EXR and adjust them in Photoshop or similar.

This suggestion was not about adjusting exposure, rather measuring it before rendering. Accuracy would most certaintly not be obtained until fully rendered at the target resolution, that's a given. But there needs to be some way to predict exposure during work to avoid unpleasent surprises after a long render. Exposure is not something that can always be repaired in post (in Photoshop) because if the pixel information is not present, the pixels can't repaired without risking quality degradation.

Logic suggests that if Terragen provides an exposure control, then Terragen also needs to provide a means of accessing exposure, such as a histogram. The provided exposure level control is deficient because it has no increment markings. Visual accessment of exposure is simply not enough.

Consider this thought (or re-consider it); in almost all cases the output of Terragen will be an image whether it is a still image or a frame in a video sequence. As such, Terragen would benefit by eliminating as much image post processing as possible which a histogram, however implemented, would contribute toward. Anything you can do to get a render close to a correct image structure (not over exposed or under exposed in this case) would allow Terragen authors to spend less time rendering because render re-do's would be reduced. This is also an improvemnet on production time, which I'm sure many Terragen clients would appreciate. It's one thing to re-render that 800x600 image. But to have to re-render that 3300x5100 image is not a fun place to be.

I'm adding this para after the first posting:
What PlanetSide could do is provide a histogram in the render window (not the preview window). If the author suspects that a portion of the image might be under or over exposed, the author could render a cropped portion of the image to check the histogram. The histogram would, of course, have to be programmatically confined to the render crop area because the area outside the crop area would be the ultimate under exposure (black). Allow the user to turn on/off the render window histogram because a histogram is not always needed. It would be off by default.

When you stop a render the "Stop" button becomes a "Render" button, which you can click to immediately start rendering again.

Eliminate as many mouse movements and mouse clicks as possible. Maximize work effeciency wherever possible.

You should not change settings during rendering.

Yes, I noticed that. The developers of Terragen should design so that Terragen renders only based on the settings at the instant a render is started - a settings snapshot. The logic here is to allow the author the ability to continue to work with his/her project rather than being forced to stop authoring work. Not all renders are final outputs. And what work the user prefers to do, for whatever reason, is up to the user whether it makes sense or not.

As for crashes during render, well, crashes must not be allowed at all, ever. And if they do happen, to not ever blame it on a user action - software must be user action bullet proof. The only acceptable user-caused crash is for the user to inititate an OS forced termination of the program, or pull the power plug from the computer. Otherwise, when it takes a nose dive, it cannot ever be the user's fault.

-Pat

[mogn]

Just put the note node in the internal network of the node.

[PCook]

Just put the note node in the internal network of the node.

A good suggestion mogn. However my suggestion was based on being able to record a note that is visible on the settings windows of a node (see pic of simulated note field), in other words on the node itself. Putting the note within the node network essentually buries the note with high probability that the author will not see the note again. And to see note, if one exists, the author needs to know enough to dig for it which adds steps to the workflow.

-Pat

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[jaf]

I'm still not sure why, when a render is in progress (or paused) that user inputs are not locked out.  I don't mean locking out viewing the data, just lock it so it can't be changed.

[PCook]

I wouldn't be in favor of locking the design settings, that would interfere with the user's workflow. I think Terragen should take a snapshot of the settings and render from the snapshot, allowing the user full interaction with the design controls during render.

What I do is make an adjustment in strata for instance, start a low resolution render, and go work on another area of the scene such as grass. That allows me to obtain a visual of the strata while I was tweaking out the grass. As such, I would be furious if TG locked me out of design during rendering. The only time I would take a *voluntary* hands-off stance is when I go for a high resolution render which I would consider a "final" render, but by that time I'm done with design anyway.

-Pat

[TheBadger]

Hi,

I have a question about locked render settings.

I often make changes to a scene while rendering. For example I will render a test but know whatever the results of that test are, that I still want to add a population.
So while rendering I will often add a population. Since the scene is not populated with the new object the render cannot be affected anyway.

But I have seen no effect on moving the sun, for example, while rendering. So are the settings you guys talking about only things like detail and GI. Or all settings? Honestly, I cant imagine why anyone would change quality in the middle of a render.

From what I can tell, the only limitation on "designing" a scene while rendering is, 1) don't mess with quality. And 2) have the horse power to do it.

Am I mistaken?

[PCook]

So are the settings you guys talking about only things like detail and GI

I'm refering to aspects of the scene that are somewhat (but perhaps not entirely) isolated to themselves such as shaders and obejcts that are somewhat independant of other shaders and objects. I know that reflection, refraction, shadows and so forth might be affected, but at that early point in the design I'm more interested in scene structure and placements than lighting. Of course there comes a point where the more global aspects of the scene need to be set in, such as GI, and that's when you want the render to be more accurate so that's when it's time to get a coffee refill while rendering. I'm finding that designing while rendering is best when "roughing in the scene".

the only limitation on "designing" a scene while rendering is, 1) don't mess with quality. And 2) have the horse power to do it.

I agree and good point. I have a very fast workstation, so I can design and render at the same time, to a point. I learned along time ago that a slower computer is not worth its lower price.

-Pat