Object => Planes

Started by Upon Infinity, July 24, 2012, 02:44:30 AM

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jo

Hi,

I just thought I'd mention there will be a new plane-type object added in a future version which is much easier to use than the plane, especially for things like billboarding.

Regards,

Jo

Upon Infinity

Okay, below is what I consider a successful test.  Even with atmosphere visible it blends quite well in the scene.  Although now I have a different problem regarding lighting and that will be covered in a new thread.  Apparently, even though I try to mask the mapped plane from the effects of light, it's not quite as independent as I'd like it to be.

I look forward to seeing what the new options will be, Jo.

TheBadger

Hi,

I just took a look at your gallery. The image "Eilean Donan Castle" http://www.uponinfinity.com/prints.html is very nice.  :o

You asked about my "photo compositing". After looking at your site this thread makes a lot more sense to me now. You were right (IMHO) to choose Terragen2 over other software if your intention is to make photo prints via 3D. Especially if you plan on doing photo compositing. Tg2 can produce images that blend with the real thing better than any other software that I have seen; For terrain at least. And again this is all just my personal feelings of the software.

My interest in terragen2 initially was to use the software in my nontraditional printing workflow; platinum, color transfer, Gum bichromates, lots of methods, even printing by intaglio. TG2 was a great way to get images that I didn't have a chance to make with a camera. But since I have been reading these forums, my interest in 3D has grown exspentially.
My education is all in Fine art and film. And my work background is broadcast television. I was an editor before going back to school. So when I found TG2 I was completely sold at first sight! I saw what people were doing with it and knew this was the way to go for me.

The software is easy to use once you understand it. But learning it in the first place has been a long painful process for me. So I have only a little "good" work done with it yet.

Here is a link to an artist that indirectly got me to terragen2, http://www.dylancolestudio.com/ He uses actual photos in his work as well.
Imagine that kind of stuff (take a look at the image of the people bathing in the river) in a B&W platinum! All the people in just the perfect place, the light just right.
He is a matte painter as you can see, I understand that is one of the primary uses for TG2, and I guess thats what some of the people from this community do. But I think TG2 is better than just a background maker and terrain visualizer! The renderer is great in my view, you get good images from default.

So this is where modeling comes in. Those buildings by the river in 3D would be hero objects. unique models made for a prominent position in a final work. That is why I mentioned Silva3D and NWDA. They provide models in TG2's native format at a good price. But your not likely going to find Something like the buildings I mentioned any place for cheep. So making them is a good option.  Thats just my example, anything singular would do. But if you don't want to model, walli at Silva 3d will make you what you want for a fee.

Ok now after that long awkward testimonial, here is some more information related to your testing, in case you haven't seen it yet. Maybe someone else will need it.

http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=2537.0

So your not the first to do what your doing, but your the first (I think) to write down the instructions. Good job for that!

Here are some more images that influenced me to buy terragen2. No, theres no obvious visual relationship. But I like treating portraits like landscapes. LOgic is not a requirement for being an artist. It may help though.
http://www.vervegallery.com/?p=artist_biography&a=MG&photographer=Misha%20Gordin

Heck, your a photographer, just take a look at the entire artist list and gallery.
http://www.vervegallery.com/?p=represented_artists

:o



It has been eaten.

masonspappy

Quote from: TheBadger on August 23, 2012, 08:36:37 PM

...hero objects. unique models made for a prominent position in a final work.
:o

So that's what a hero object is?  I've seen the reference many times but never understood it.

Kadri

#19
Hi ,

Open TG2 with a new project.

Make a new  "Image map shader" node . Choose a picture you want. Do not play with the settings (for now).

Make a new "Surface layer" node .

Put the "Image map shader" output in the "Surface layer" node "colour function" and "luminosity function" inputs.

Then open the default "Background" node and change the "Surface shader" there to your
newly created "Surface layer" node (the new external input is created in this way).

Now you have the picture that you choose in the "Image map chader" as a background and can use it easily with TG2 clouds etc. too.

You can change the appearance of your image in the surface layer colour and luminosity settings etc.
You can play with the Atmosphere primary and secondary options too.

This has the advantage that you can use the camera as a projection method and in this way it does not matter how you position your camera etc.
It is very easy for stills . But like your Plane this has some limitations too of course.

Maybe you know this already i do not know but just in case...

Cheers.

Upon Infinity

Hi Kadri,

No, I didn't know about this particular method, but I find it interesting!

However, I found the projection method a little frustrating, as it doesn't really give you the kind of flexibility to move that background around if you want.  But this method does have the advantage of being quick and being a final layer that is behind absolutely everything, so I think at some point, I'll be able to put it to advantage.  So, thanks!

Upon Infinity

#21
Okay, I solved my lighting issues and I'm going to have to alter the method I mentioned above.

1. Import your mapped plane object.

2. Turn Off Shadows of your mapped plane object.

3. Image goes into LUMINOSITY IMAGE with LUMINOSITY set to 1.  Forget translucency and diffuse, as these setting will interact with the lighting in your environment, including casting shadows on the back of the image, showing up in the front.

4. This will create a perfectly lit image (with lighting independent of the rest of the scene), that will not block light passing through it, nor allow any light to be projected onto it.

Enjoy!

Badger:  Glad you like the pic.  Eilean Donan is a famous castle in Scotland.  It was used in the movie 'Highlander'.

Regarding Terragen; I've actually been using Terragen 2 off and on since the Technology Preview.  I started with the 0.9 version and once I saw the alpha images for TG 2 and started reading about it capabilities, I was sold.  Particularly the 'instancing' of vegetation and other models and the fact it is primarily for landscape images (which my project has a lot of), and the fact it would allow for additional objects to be imported.  I knew I still had (and have) a couple of hurdles left to clear.  Figuring out these imported skies was one of them.  Next is modeling (I'm gonna check out Hexagon and look up your tutorials.  And then, a hell of a lot of sweat work. 

dandelO

QuoteI just took a look at your gallery. The image "Eilean Donan Castle" http://www.uponinfinity.com/prints.html is very nice.

Wasn't that almost my exact words when we first spoke some time ago, Chad? :)
Not too far from me, it's a beautiful place that everyone visiting the North should come and see.

Regarding the billboards, I've quite often done this with TG2, it works well for distant vegetation and things like that. There was a problem with the inbuilt plane where, if an alpha channel was used, the shadowing on the rest of the scene would not account for the alpha and the shadow would still cast as a solid plane so, it was best to use an imported plane. Does this work properly now? I don't suppose it makes much difference here, since you have shadows turned off for the planes.

* If you use an imported 2D plane object to create a population, remember to restrict the instanced Y rotation to around 30 degrees max' from your view to stop your planes appearing too side-on when positioned. :)

Upon Infinity

Hi, Dandelo

Yep, that was me.  I've sold quite of a few pictures of that castle and very envious am I of your living near it.

As far as lighting goes, I didn't experiment with alpha channels.  I assume under my current settings, any alpha channel (partial transparency), would only allow light to be seen through the panel.  And yes, this works quite well.  My whole idea was to create a panel that is lit independently of the rest of the scene so as not to interfere with the scene lighting.  For example if I have a backlit scene and the sun has to light the foreground through the panel, I don't want it to cast a shadow onto the scene.  Another problem I was having, was if I kept the original cloud layer on top of the plane, it was casting shadows onto the plane itself from both behind it and on front, depending on where the light was coming.  Also, when I took my light source away (- elevation), the panel would not be lit.  All of those problems are solved with LUMINOSITY.  Except shadows, you have to turn those off as well.


TheBadger

Hey Infinity,
Just to be clear, I did not mean to sound condescending, if I did. I was just writing in general terms. And sharing how I have some of the same interests. Hope my tone reads like I thought?
It has been eaten.

TheBadger

QuoteImage goes into LUMINOSITY IMAGE with LUMINOSITY set to 1.  Forget translucency and diffuse, as these setting will interact with the lighting in your environment, including casting shadows on the back of the image, showing up in the front.

Which image? Anything I try to plug into the "LUMINOSITY IMAGE" plug is refused. The node line actually turns from green to red.

When you say plane, you are really saying object. Since I made it I know that there is absolutely no difference between the object plane your referring to, and any other object. Therefore, what you have done with the new "plane", can be done with any object!

So, I have wanted to do something in particular with the methods in this thread. But I cant get my object to produce light. I am guessing that it is not the object but the image map that becomes the light source? At any rate I cant make this work yet.

You said that I needed to turn off shadows on my object. But how do you turn of shadows per object?

Some help please!
It has been eaten.

Upon Infinity

#26
Quote from: TheBadger on September 04, 2012, 10:06:21 PM

Which image? Anything I try to plug into the "LUMINOSITY IMAGE" plug is refused. The node line actually turns from green to red.

Perhaps this screenshot will help.  I don't think you can do this through the nodes.  So open up the actual shader panel and select the image you want and push luminosity to at least 1.

Quote from: TheBadger on September 04, 2012, 10:06:21 PM
When you say plane, you are really saying object. Since I made it I know that there is absolutely no difference between the object plane your referring to, and any other object. Therefore, what you have done with the new "plane", can be done with any object!

No difference between this imported object and any other imported object, yes.  But a significant difference between this object and Terragen's native Plane object, which I found to be rather unwieldy.

Quote from: TheBadger on September 04, 2012, 10:06:21 PM
So, I have wanted to do something in particular with the methods in this thread. But I cant get my object to produce light. I am guessing that it is not the object but the image map that becomes the light source? At any rate I cant make this work yet.

Yes, once the luminosity operation is enabled, the light can become a lightsource.  See my post here:
http://www.planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=15004.msg146188#msg146188

Quote from: TheBadger on September 04, 2012, 10:06:21 PM
You said that I needed to turn off shadows on my object. But how do you turn of shadows per object?

See screenshot number 2.

TheBadger

Quote

Which image? Anything I try to plug into the "LUMINOSITY IMAGE" plug is refused. The node line actually turns from green to red.

Perhaps this screenshot will help.  I don't think you can do this through the nodes.  So open up the actual shader panel and select the image you want and push luminosity to at least 1.

Ahhhh, ok. thanks. I haven't tried again to see if this method is going to work for what I want. But I'm sure these answers clarify things.

QuoteBut a significant difference between this object and Terragen's native Plane object, which I found to be rather unwieldy.
Sure. I was just happy at my personal revelation that what your talking about in this thread IS NOT a one trick pony (exclamation mark)  insert happy face.

To anyone reading this:
Why does it matter if I connect a node in the node network via right click select, Vs., adding one from the panel as the last post clarified? Whats the difference? Why the difference?
Thanks
It has been eaten.

Oshyan

Luminosity Image is not a node input but rather a file input; it's also a setting of the Default Shader node. Right-clicking the input in the node network allows you to set the file name, which can also be done through the node's settings. They effect the exact same setting. The input does show up as a standard node input, but doesn't allow node connections because it's for a file reference, and I think that could be a bit confusing. We might consider changing the color of file input ports in the future.

- Oshyan

TheBadger

It has been eaten.