Trees

[TheBadger]

@Badger - Guess how I got into TG2?  I was one of the first people here on the forums for TG2 (not so much on TG, but some) and did a pre-purchase.  The pre-purchase software was absolutely nothing like it is now, but it was great working with this Planetside team and getting to know everyone here, while the software improved month by month, year by year.  I was able to get in on that, but it also meant I got a discount on TG2 because it was a pre-purchase.  This is what is happening with Plant Factory and now might be a good time to consider it (before next Monday), if you decide to consider other points of view rather than those less than gracious toward e-On.  I think we're in for a treat, myself.

Calico,
I must say that the support and patience I have shown to Planetside is not something typical of me or my nature as a being. Quite the reverse actually.

I did not come to art through 3D, but 3D from traditional art largely by way of these forums and TG2. So for that reason I feel more attached to this software and community than I ever could to any other. The fist time only happens once.

Having said  that, there is no way in hell Im going to spend 1500 dollars to wait 3 years for any software to develop enough to be useful to me. Plenetside got all I have to give in that respect.
I am not a consumer so that others can have jobs and nice lives. Or so I can support the development of anyone or anything. I buy things for me, because I need them or I want them, and for no other reason. Who pays for college so that a teacher can have a job?

TPF (and speedtree for that mater) are very expensive. Add to that, that I would need the OSX version. And would have to wait many months to get it, but am required to buy it now. And that I have read no promise that all concerns will be cared for... And you should begin to be able to look past your passion.

Now to be absolutely fair... I really do need to be able to make my own plants. I need very specific things for my work. And I am seriously thinking about buying TPF on sale.
Bluestorm is helping a great deal with me making up my mind. But I simply cannot afford to trust. I need verifiable facts. I do not do this stuff for fun! It is not fun for me at all. I really hate computers and software. Truly, I do!

But the arts are my life. They are my lively hood. They are my families future, win loose or draw.
I have invested tens of thousands of dollars in education. Years of learning and working and thinking and emotion. All for a very tinny distant chance at being able to say something new as an artist.

I would cut off my fucking ear and give it to you to realize my vision. If that would do it. But instead I need the software these crazy geniuses invent.

I am not a benefactor. I am not their friend. I am not here for them. And with respect to what I said about planetside, no one should be.

This is business for them, it should be for us too. The world has had its fill of starving artists, and so have I.

[efflux]

Another update about Arbaro. You can put whatever mesh you want in as leaves. I haven't tried this yet though but this gives you a lot of scope.

Wings is having trouble applying modifyling operations to 160 thousand faces at once so I'm not sure heavy editing of the leaves in Wings is a good idea but changing the shape of polys already there seems fine.

[mhaze]

Impressive work efflux.  Well with the inclusion of the full set of plant creation capabilities including the entire range of math, fractal, and noise nodes, it's a no brainer at the pre release price so I've bought it.  My bank balance isn't happy nor is my wife!  Must say on first acquaintance it is very good but a manual and some examples would help to understand the intricacies of the program. Look forward to playing with it. I'm not going to make any comparisons yet.

[Tangled-Universe]

Ok, about half a day not being present online a LOT has happened!
Studio has no creative restrictions anymore! They have listened to the slurry of feedback
Now the only restriction is selling stuff in C3D only, but adding in those other features, or actually removing restrictions, have now made it the creative tool I think fits the version description and target a lot better, but especially also my needs and expectations.

Still $395 now and $595 starting on monday.
So in the end I took the gamble, after having not the very best first experiences with E-on, but the eagerness of wanting to have this tool without restrictions and its good price** won over.
I just became an E-on customer and bought a license!

**Daniel, will get back to your nice reply a bit later. About the price in your reply though; I was dyslectic first and thought you had the prices in dollars and thus incorrect, much later I saw my mistake and fixed it, but got lazy to adjust my opinion on it and thus forgot to do so. Anyway, as you may have read now I think the value for (my) money is there.

Cheers,
Martin

[Bluestorm]

Congrats, Martin

Just don't expect it to be super stable yet. I had a couple of crashes during the last days, you can clearly see that it's still a beta release.

On a side node: when the update arrives on Monday, you will have all the material and function editor possibilities that are offered in Vue Infinite. Having seen what you are able to create in Terragen (I followed your excellent Canyon Wall Tutorial), I'd be curious on your take on Vue's fractal and function nodes in comparison to Terragen's and what's possible with Terragen's nodes that is not possible in Vue and vice versa. I still think Terragen's fractals are far superior to Vue's, but the variety in Vue is bigger. Even though you cannot create terrains in TPF, you get the full shading and material system to play with. Will be looking forward to your opinion

[Tangled-Universe]

That's exactly why I'm so excited about those fractal possibilities and yet indeed also equally disappointed they first weren't in the Studio version.
Anyway, history now, it will be available

I think Terragen doesn't have "better" fractals than Vue. Yes Vue has more flavours, wish TG had those too, but in the end I think it runs down on how the software handles these procedural primitives and at the moment that's TG's key strength over Vue.
Matt found a clever way to organise the fractal data at rendertime to keep memory footprint low and stability very high.
You probably know that Vue is rather more like a pure ray tracer with different modes, in contrary to TG which does raytracing for shadows and such, but uses a system based no reyes architecture to deal with the complex geometry derived from fractal information.
I think that's where the key lies in their differences, strengths and weaknesses.
There's a heap of info on raytracing solutions for any kind of problem vs low volume of information on reyes architecture accelaration and rendering solutions.
I suppose the 3D industry is as prone to fashion as any other (like the medical research field where I work in).

I expect some stability issues. I remember starting with TGTP (TerraGen Technology Preview) which also had stability issues and sadly enough a couple of features enabled by default which slowed renders down 3 times to learn years later that it isn't required for stills at all (this is about the detail blending parameter).
I think TG got that label of being slow then and is still fighting against it which in turn connects to the paragraph above.
Anyway, stability, TGTP was unstabl'ish at first, but I remember it has improved drastically and quickly. If I recall correctly some have even mentioned it might be one of the most stable apps in CG out there.
I don't mind if TPF crashes every now and then at this stage, as long as it isn't every 15 minutes or so...

"Unfortunately" it's too good weather now to take a crack at it, so I'll let you know about my first thoughts later!

[mhaze]

First impressions are excellent.  So far TPF is stable and seems to be very flexible.  There's a lot to learn, it is not as intuitive or as quick as Speedtree but in the end I think it will be possible to create just about anything and will not have the  limitations of Speedtree.  Bluestorm is it possible to create bifurcated trunks?  Now all I need is a good source of textures and leaves.  What has become apparent to me over the last few days is that preparation and planning are paramount if you are to create top quality trees.

[TheBadger]

Please let us know your findings before the end of the sale Martin! If you have time that is.
Between you and bluestorm, I believe I will hear the real facts.

And if anyone hears anymore about how e-on will deal with the OSX release, please post on it.


Hey calico. I think my response was too harsh on you. I get to impassioned my self. Sorry if I was too harsh. Don't realize how words feel different in-person from pixels sometimes.

You guys. You know I thought they would change what they were doing (e-on). But I did not really believe it. Im a little... shocked?

[mhaze]

I was shocked too - I wonder if sales were going as well as they claimed or if they were concerned by the hit to their reputation.  If is was a genuine altruistic response, well, well done them!

[Bluestorm]

Bifurcated trunks should be no problem, although I would need to figure out how to do them Will give it a try this weekend.

[Antoine]

@ mhaze :

By bifurcated trunks, I suppose you mean this :

It is possible as you can see, you have to create two segments linked together to the root,  rotate them differently and play with the radius filter to enlarge the base.

[Bluestorm]

Yes, I did exactly the same thing as Antoine. Here's mine:

[Tangled-Universe]

Michael, OSX version will be released later.

Upon checking out for buying they stated it's a beta version you're buying which might suffer from occasional crashes and that it's unfinished...blablabla...and at the end they said that if you buy now that you can get the OSX version later.

Just go through the ordering process and you'll see for yourself, it's shown before your money is gone

[TheBadger]

lol

Ok. I give in. Its not like I did not want it.

Luckily in about 20 min Ill be in a drunken coma though. So I wont feel it anyway.

[mhaze]

Thanks Antoine & Bluestorm - now how do I link them??? must go and play.... ah I see easy really