TG3 Free Edition preview render

Started by Bjur, July 25, 2013, 10:30:07 AM

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Bjur

Unfortunately i have spare time left at this moment to work or test with TG 3 (free) and TG in all..

But i recognized the multithreaded TG 3 free preview needs way more time to calculate something than my old TG 2.5 preview.

The "Render .. detail.." was going up to 180 %(?) instead to end after showing the 80 % state and the CPU cooling starts to run like mad during this time/phase.

Same TG 2.5 project/scene was used and settings were adjusted between both versions (resolution, ram, GI things, all possible settings in all for comparing).

* Sidenote: Both versions, TG 2.5 "professional" and TG 3 free edition were opened and used at the same time..


Greetings from Hannover, Germany

Alex
~ The annoying popularity of Vue brought me here.. ~

jo

Hi Alex,

The value you're seeing is not a percentage but a detail level. I believe the 3D Preview finishes rendering at a higher detail level because we found in testing that the multithreaded preview renders more quickly, which means we could let it go to a higher detail level in about the same time as the lower detail level used to take. On some machines it's actually a bit quicker.

The cooling fans running would be normal because TG is doing more work and the CPU is getting hotter, especially with the preview being threaded instead of just running on one core. It doesn't mean something is going wrong, it just means that most applications don't work the processor as much as TG does. However some testers have mentioned it seems to drain laptop batteries more quickly and perhaps people would be happier with the lower detail vs other things. We've been talking about being able to set a maximum detail level for the 3D Preview but I'm not sure that will be available in the final TG3 release. It might need to wait until a following update.

Regards,

Jo

Oshyan

Also, it's not really a reasonable or fair test if you're running both at once. To get the best test, start with the same scene in TG 2, reset the preview and use a stopwatch (real or software) to time it to completing detail 80 (the max in TG2). Then close TG2 and open the same scene in TG3, do the same procedure, but stop the stopwatch once it starts to say it is rendering at detail 160 - that will be the equivalent level of detail of the TG2 preview. It should definitely be faster.

- Oshyan

Bjur

Thx you both for your fast responses.  :)

@ Oshyan:

My post wasn't worded that well i see, i'm sry for that.
I wanted to say both versions were active/loaded but i rendered just one prev. at a time of course.
But you are definitely right with your solution for a fair test. Can't wait to get TG3 asap and i'm looking forward to be able to use and test TG 3 in full charge for my project.

@ Jo:

Indeed, to have a choice between levels of detail, let's say just 2 levels at 50% and 100% for the preview render, could be very useful i guess.

Best wishes

Alex
~ The annoying popularity of Vue brought me here.. ~

Bjur

Hi again.

Just wanted to let you know, i have done some 3D preview render tests with the TG3 free version out of curiosity..

I was opening and saving the standard opening scenes of both versions and it's settings for using it for both versions.

Test PC was a Win7 64Bit 2700K @ 4,6 GHz and 16 GB ram:

TG 2.5 "pro" opening scene (switching from object to render tab with shaders, atmo, true light on):
- TG 2.5 single threaded needed ~7 seconds to complete the whole task (@ 80's detail)
- TG 3 free multithreaded needed ~19 seconds to complete the whole task (@ 160's detail)

TG 3 free opening scene (switching from object to render tab with shaders, atmo, true light on):
- TG 2.5 pro ~ needs 13-14 seconds (around 25 unknown parameter warnings were showing up before - of course)
- TG 3 free ~ needs 39 seconds

Both versions run separate with no other version loaded in the background.
I understand that TG 3 haves lots of new parameters and influences but has also 7 more threads..

I'm wondering and don't know what i or my software is doing wrong with the 3D prev render.

Alex
~ The annoying popularity of Vue brought me here.. ~

Matt

#5
It isn't a fair test because TG3 renders to a higher detail with 4 times the number of micropolygons. Having said that, it is reasonable to expect that with 4 cores (or 8 virtual cores) TG3 @ detail 160 would complete at least as quickly as TG2 @ detail 80, but in the default scene it doesn't. There are a couple of reasons it doesn't. First, the subdivision and displacement phase of the rendering is not multithreaded yet, only the shaders and atmosphere (including lighting) are. The default scene is very simple and a disproportionate amount of time is spent in the subdivision and displacement phase. Scenes with more demanding lighting, atmosphere and shaders will typically preview much faster in TG3 than they did in TG2, although, again, the higher maximum detail might seem to nullify that difference if you are waiting for the preview to finish all the way to 160. If you are happy with detail 80, you can pause it when it says "rendering detail 160". The second reason TG3 isn't as fast as you might think it should be is because the thread scheduling algorithm for the 3D Preview needs to some improvements. You can expect it to get faster in future. The preview in 3.0 should almost always be faster than 2.5 though, for equivalent detail.

Matt
Just because milk is white doesn't mean that clouds are made of milk.

Oshyan

#6
Well Alex, it looks like we owe you an apology. It appears there may have been a significant bug introduced in the preview rendering after we did our initial battery of tests on the multi-threaded preview (which showed the kind of speed-ups we've been talking about). So thank you for letting us know and getting us to take a 2nd look.

Update: it looks like this was not an actual bug, but we're still doing tests. As Matt said above, the multithreading is not yet optimal and can and will be improved.

- Oshyan

Bjur

Ah, no apology's needed..

My belly-feel just told me there's something going on/wrong with the new 3D prev render of the free version.
I'm just glad i could help to spot a software problem for you guys.

You are in a very stressful phase with your new release and the Siggraph around i guess and the last you need atm. are any annoying
grumblings about "bad feelings" of people who touching the new version the very 1st time i bet..  ;D



Keep your heads up!

Alex

~ The annoying popularity of Vue brought me here.. ~