Joshua Tree National Park first WIP

[gregtee]

Wow!

I feel like putting down the mouse and going and watching Lawrence of Arabia after looking at your images.  I can tell I'm going to have a lot of fun going through all this stuff.  Thanks for the notations on the nodes too, it helps me to understand what you're doing. 

I feel like I want to take a up a collection here on the board and buy you a faster computer and a TG upgrade.  You're a gentleman among men Chinaski!

Thanks and I'll let you know how it turns out.

-greg

[TheBadger]

This would be a good topic for a tut series. Geekatplay?

[TheBadger]

Actually, given the pretty big difference in appearance and methods people are showing here, I doubt I would be the only person happy to see a sticky of ready to use sand ripples.

And to tell you the truth, I wouldn't mind a "ripple shader" built into TG in the first place! Seems like a fundamental aspect of most any desert scene (to greater or lessor degrees). And clearly its pretty labor intensive for the user to go from scratch... Is it a possibility Jo?

[gregtee]

 I think a good answer to a sand ripple shader is something that Nuke has, which is a feature called Gizmos.  Gizmos are simply arrangements of nodes that are "wrapped" into a single node with specific controls exposed to the end user to make adjustments.    For example, all of Chinaski's sand nodes could be compartmentalized into a single node, and when that node is clicked on, only the sliders and input values he decides are presented to the end user.  It looks just like any other shader panel to us, but it's made by him and not the Planetside team.

It's a great feature because it encourages users to write their own "shaders" that can easily be shared and limits the confusion end users have when trying to decipher what the originator of the script had in mind as only the parts that the originator wants them to have access to are exposed.

-greg

[Dune]

Well, the answer to the Gizmo is a TGC, I guess. Save it in a Gizmo folder and pull out when needed. All variables are inside.

I've made my file into a GIZMO aided, very simple tgd. This is my way of doing rocks on sand. It might benefit you.

But I also believe it's not more than natural if sand rides up to rock structures, that's what happens in the real world as well, windblown up againts slopes.

[TheBadger]

Gizmos are simply arrangements of nodes that are "wrapped" into a single node with specific controls exposed to the end user to make adjustments.

Yeah, in Maya or anything with MEL and python too I guess, you can make any node or set of nodes, as well as UI. In TG you can collapse an entire node tree down into one or two nodes and use that as a TGC as Dune pointed out. But the problem with that is you can't hide parameters like the way you described in nuke. So once the end user gets down into the guts of it, he will be faced essentially with the same problems you are discussing.

In TG it does help a lot to keep work space neat and orderly. But from the perspective of sharing, it requires every node to have a note explaining whats going on, or for the end user to have the same knowledge level of the person who made the shader... which defeats the purpose from the perspective of what you said.

So for TG, really the only way to get what you are describing is for TG to have the ripple shader, and then people could simply share the settings recipes, and connection formulas. Still, that would cut the work load for making ripples down to 1/4 or less of what it is now, I would guess.

@Ulco, is that file you shared of the sand in the image you posted on the last page? I thought your ripples looked nice. I downloaded your share too. Thank you!

[Dune]

Yes, it is. But if you build a Gizmo/TGC and add some notes about which variables can be adjusted and which should be left alone, it will not be too hard. But I don't like hidden stuff, and would prefer all to be seen and changeable. Like the inside working of a water shader; you can't change the fractal flavor...

[gregtee]

I downloaded your file Dune and saw your gizmos.  That's close to what I'm talking about but the main missing items are the access to the internal nodes input variables inside the first surface layer.  When I click on the surface layer all I get are standard surface layer options.  I don't have access to any of your internal nodes.  Sure if I click the little + to get access to the internal nodes I can edit them but what if you could design your own interface based on your internal nodes?  So there's a node called Dune's Sand Ripples that has as its interface when you double click it a bunch of sliders and input fields that just reference back to the deeper internal nodes you've made that produce your sand ripples.  This way someone like myself or Badger wouldn't have to dig down into the nested nodes and instead just access thier input variables from the top node.  We don't even have to know how your internal nodes work.  All we're presented with is what you decide you want us to fiddle with.  Now if we wanted to dig down and see what really is going on we still could, and make changes, additions, etc, but it makes for a much cleaner workflow if we don't have to or want or need to.

[AP]

Are we not just talking about Macros here? Something I wanted to see in Terragen for a very long time. Vue has them and World Machine has them.

[Dune]

I think it would be possible if you put the adjustable nodes outside (in a neat row, in a group) and link them to the inside stuff. But it would be up to Planetside to make a real one-node gizmo with different variables linking to all the stuff inside, like the water shader for instance (which I don't like, although not liking is relative, because it's so secret inside).

[zaxxon]

Any of the Gizmo/Macro/TGC interface ideas suggested would be welcome. Making the power of TG more accessible with fewer learning curves works for me, I have to believe that Planetside is moving in that direction. Using Vue as an example is a mixed bag, however ease of use to focus mostly on image making with friendly tools certainly would help to expand the user base. BTW, despite all the cool learning examples and high level discussion I still find the original image and concept to be the most pleasing to my eye.

[gregtee]

My goal ultimately is go back to that original image but with some of these sand features mixed into the landscape.  This was a huge detour for sure but it taught me a lot.  And I haven't even put the actual Joshua trees in yet!

[Tangled-Universe]

Hi Greg,

I didn't forget to look at your file, but haven't found proper time yet....just to let you know I'm still keen on helping you out here.

Cheers,
Martin

[gregtee]

Thanks Martin. I'm looking forward to it.

I rendered a 300 frame animation of this thing over the past 4 days that I'll put up in the animation section tomorrow sometime.  It's just a simple forward dolly track over about 300 meters of terrain.  No plants yet but it's still fun to watch. 

-greg

[gregtee]

Here's some keyframes from an animation I rendered over the past weekend.  Still no veg, and not exactly what I'm shooting for, but I thought a little interesting none the less.   These are part of a 300 frame run rendered at HD with pretty high settings so there's no artifacts or flickering of any kind.  Times per frame were in the high end because I'm using the two planet gag to add the sand ripples but for a proof of concept anim I wasn't trying to optimize yet.   Camera is nothing special, just a straight push in. 

-greg