Possibility of licencing/buying renders, hiring someone to do them?

[foremankoo]

Hi guys,

I'm a newbie Terragen user and a solo indie game developer working on a small commercial game that I hope to release soon. I thought about experimenting with the free Terragen demo, learning what's what and then obtaining the version that would allow me to use the renders commercially.

However, as I soon discovered, I am absolutely the worst at this. The desert planet I try to create look hideous and the lighting flat in comparison to most Terragen renders available out there. No matter how much time I devote daily to learning this software, it seems to be slightly above my abilities. The amount of control given to the user makes it dependent on my abilities - and they're meager. And I just don't have enough time before the release of the game (or rather before closing the demo and then Beta) to achieve a solid level just by trial and error.

Hence, I wanted to ask: is it legal by Terragen's license and otherwise acceptable to hire someone to create the terrain and renders you're thinking about in their copy of Terragen? Are people with such commercially-viable copies available on this forum and interested in creating such renders for some possibly squeamishly low price (my game is extremely low-budget and I just don't have a lot cash laying around at this moment), if it would be deemed legal? I can offer full credit and whatever cash I can gather for this purpose without breaking other portions of the budget.

Just thought I'd ask how this looks.

Thanks!

[Upon Infinity]

Yes, it is a hard program to just pick up, isn't it?   What you're asking is completely legal.  The only issue you have is to convince an artist to complete your project.  Most of the best Terragen artists here will demand top dollar for their work.  Which leaves you with going with someone who's somewhat good but needs work/exposure.  I might consider doing it myself but I'm bogged down in my own projects.  Although I would like to follow the progress of how this all turns out.

[Oshyan]

Indeed, as long as the person who creates the image(s) has a valid license of Terragen, it's perfectly fine to use it in a game, or anywhere else. Hopefully someone will be interested to collaborate with you. You should probably post a separate thread in the Terragen discussion area with a bit more info about your project though, and a thread title that more clearly states your intent of hiring or trade.

- Oshyan

[Tangled-Universe]

I'm always interested in projects, but like Oshyan said we need a bit more info to see whether it's viable what you want from both technical, personal and financial point of view.

Yes, it is a hard program to just pick up, isn't it?   What you're asking is completely legal.  The only issue you have is to convince an artist to complete your project.  Most of the best Terragen artists here will demand top dollar for their work.  Which leaves you with going with someone who's somewhat good but needs work/exposure.  I might consider doing it myself but I'm bogged down in my own projects.  Although I would like to follow the progress of how this all turns out.

This is however not true, at least not for me.

In this case it's clear up front that there's very little budget, which is very transparent and honest.
I sympathize with that, because many times people try to trick you into getting started "to see how things get off....see if we like it (meaning "thanks for the work!") etc." while avoiding and evading the compensation discussion in the meantime.

If you are a professional CG artist your company lets the client pay around 3 digit numbers per hour for you.
The CG artist himself gets a much smaller cut of that etc., we all know that story.
Doing TG work for example, say, 25 bucks an hour is a steal then.
Doing decent TG work takes a couple of days (1-3), let alone top notch stuff and then I'm only talking about a still image then.
(As soon as animation is asked for then render farm costs are involved and prices will skyrocket quickly.)

So it's also a matter of perspective and especially what you consider top-dollar rates.

Working for real for free is just bad, hence many discussions about that online who also mention it.
That has nothing to do with being greedy, it's about forcing people who actually make a living of it to have to lower their bidding on a job more and more, each time. Things like that.
Bad for everyone, except for the one who recieves the product. It's disrupting.
If you want a carpenter, plumber etc. to do something for you he's also going to ask money. In Dutch we say that only the sun rises for free

It's fine for me to do CG work for free, from time to time, but in general I'd only do low-profile and/or small pieces for free and then only if they are still work and I know I can do it within a week in the evening hours.
In the end this easily summarizes that I only do it when it seems fun to do and feasible in a short amount of time.

Cheers,
Martin

[Upon Infinity]

I hear you, T-U, but the laws of economics have a wonderful way of sorting things like this out.  When I first got involved in graphics and had an interest in doing them for money, I started out either way under market or doing things just for free.  Same thing with my photography.  I have only just recently started doing weddings and other events.  Now, I am not an experienced wedding photographer, but  I am an experienced photographer.  So, in order for me to break into this new market, the only ability I have to attract clients is to underbid the competition.  This is also attracts the clients who simply do not have as high as a budget, particularly once they experience the sticker shock of pricing out the established pros.  I benefit by getting some extra side work (doing so pays me much higher than my day job) and they benefit by getting a good photographer for their event.

Even Planetside underbids their main competition (who shall remain nameless).  This has allowed a smaller, more flexible, more determined company to nip at the heels of the more established company. 

As far as I'm concerned, you've hit your personal market rate when you are getting all the work you want at your current rate.  And once you're overwhelmed, then you start raising your prices until you have just the amount of work that you can perform.

This is why unions lobby the government for a higher minimum wage.  Most union employees make higher than the minimum wage, so why spend money supporting a higher wage for others?  This is so that they can legislate a preventative way for others who are more determined, but less experienced, to underbid them in the marketplace for labour. 

You, yourself, may not be willing to work for less than you think you are worth, but there are plenty of hungry, determined kids out there who want to make a name for themselves.

[Tangled-Universe]

Amen to that, well said. You're absolutely right.

[Dune]

Nothing personal, but the only problem I sometimes have with people who do stuff for low prices in their free time (as a hobbyist rather than a professional business), is that they can do so, because they needn't pay any taxes on their work. I loose about 40% to the taxmen, and have to ask 21% VAT on top of the price as well. So in fact only half of the price paid remains for me. I once had an exhibition with a fellow painter, who asked ridiculously low prices (because he was a hobbyist). He sold about 10 pieces, I sold one.