Class

Started by rcallicotte, July 24, 2007, 03:04:37 PM

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DeathTwister

Hay guys,

QuoteIn case anyone wonders what sparked this, it was when moodflow explained his canyon maker TGC and mentioned something about how the white and black pixels worked.  It was then that I realized I understood enough to be dangerous.  I really want to understand this application, God help me.

Oh wow could you shoot us a link? I seemed to have missed that one. Thanks Cali.

Quote@DT - This forum has loads of wonderful assistance, wisdom, and generosity and if what I've said seems to detract from it, then to HELL with that.  I'm so overwhelmed at the flood of good knowledge here that this is what has actually brought me to the place of saying this.  So, it's not because of any lack here.  It's because I want to see this is in a manual somewhere that includes users from this forum giving their best tutorials and includes Oshyan's voice throughout (with Jo and Matt explaining the way it works in the reference).

  Oh yes it does I agree whole heartedly with you there Calico /smile.  And I didn't mean to imply if I did, your art and work and Knowledge is awesome I have found over the time I have known you.  I was mainly talking about in general what I have heard and seen in Contests from people talking and so on, forums, and so on it seems there are allot of people that are having trouble with the learning curve is all, and I agree that a good help file and a better area for Tutorials would be a huge boon to all of us.

  OMG I have learned what I know with everyones helps and posts here myself, and scene files to actually look at to see how it all goes together, so yes yes, it would be a very good thing to have some kind of learning help that at this time does not seem to be what the end user needs, and could use much more help then has been set forth so far.  But I bet Planetside is is well aware of that, and has decided for now to center of getting a good product out first, then the right learning info second considering I bet it changes from one build to another, kinda hard to set things in stone maybe atm?.  I think. /looks a bit confused here....haha.

  Good post here and good questions.  I would like to see more node stuff and stuff on the .tgc files more, they are awesome to play with and seem to have huge posabilitys in what they can do and it looks like they have more power then I first thought from the basic concepts.

DT

Maylock Aromy DeathTwister Stansbury
ATOMIX Productions

cyphyr

Hmm I actually had a dream last night where I was looking at a large format (I think it was A4 Landscape) colour Terragen reference book, lots of screen shots and articles written by the guys at the cutting edge of the field. The point is that tutorial books written by software developers are rarely as good as the books written by the artists who actually use the product. Its like Planetside has designed a beautiful new kitchen, were the cooks who will make our masterpieces within it and Planetside may be able to help in some areas (wheres the mixer, oven etc) but the rest is up to us, the cooks. I'm sure once TG2 is launched in its final state there will be many books available but untill then  we just gota figure it out bit by wonderfull bit and who knows the authors of my dream book may well be part of this forum now.
Richard
www.richardfraservfx.com
https://www.facebook.com/RichardFraserVFX/
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Ryzen 9 5950X OC@4Ghz, 64Gb (TG4 benchmark 4:13)

moodflow

Quote from: calico on July 24, 2007, 10:33:28 PM
In case anyone wonders what sparked this, it was when moodflow explained his canyon maker TGC and mentioned something about how the white and black pixels worked.  It was then that I realized I understood enough to be dangerous.  I really want to understand this application, God help me.



Hi Calico,  I don't think it was me who did the canyon maker?  But alot has happened in the past.  I've learned a TON from this site.

A class would sure be a good thing.  But I will tell you folks one thing... this application hasn't even TOUCHED what it can do yet!  We are all still experimenting.  The node-based network design is amazing in the fact that it can be used in ways even the creators could never forsee.  So there will be things even they never knew would be possible.

http://www.moodflow.com
mood-inspiring images and music

moodflow

If I could pass on one tip, it would be this:

Never settle, and experiment as much as possible with aspects you want to master!  I sometimes spend a solid day working out solutions for aspects I want to master in TGTP.  And with this, I am building a huge toolset of clip files.  I'll definitely share some of these as time goes on and they are dialed in.  Hopefully others will want to share theirs as well.

With this large tool set, as time goes on, images will become easier and faster to make, with better effects.

http://www.moodflow.com
mood-inspiring images and music

rcallicotte

#19
the link - http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=1266.msg18481#msg18481 (this was ProjectX and not moodflow - apologies)

I would much rather Planetside comes up with its product before documentation.  I guess I'm ready for the manual and it's time to be patient and wait.  I can wait.



Quote from: DeathTwister on July 25, 2007, 11:28:30 AM
Hay guys,

Oh wow could you shoot us a link? I seemed to have missed that one. Thanks Cali.

DT


So this is Disney World.  Can we live here?

DeathTwister

Thanks Calico for the link brother.  yes there are lots of tutorials and discussions on the forums, and I agree with everyone above bout all this.  Woohoo I go check another tut out /winks I love learning this software it is hella fun to figure out, kinda like a good puzzle on a rainy day only we get to play every day /smiles...

DT
Maylock Aromy DeathTwister Stansbury
ATOMIX Productions

Volker Harun

cyphyr: ,-)
A very good point!

Oshyan

This is definitely an important subject and one that is not necessarily simple to resolve. There are many questions, such as where does Planetside's obligation begin and end, what is reasonable to expect of the user community, and what of commercially motivated authors and artists who may also write such materials on their own and for their own benefit?

For Planetside's part I can say we intend to provide a full set of documentation of Terragen 2. However what this entails is not necessarily what everyone wants or expects. We will cover, at a minimum, the full range of controls and settings, the overall UI, basic scene construction and a full node reference describing the specific functions and settings of each node. This does not necessarily cover how to accomplish any specific effect, an undertaking which would be extremely daunting if you were to attempt being really comprehensive. An advanced scene creation section may be included which could cover some of these things, but really by the very nature of TG2's flexibility and power it is impossible to document everything. Even one particular effect may be achieved in many ways most of the time, and there may not even be a "best" approach, depending on your specific needs. We will also be including a library of basic and perhaps some advanced effects and presets which should help, but again they would just be a starting point and a lot will depend on a user's ability to experiment and learn from that basis.

That being said I do think there is a lot of room for user-created tutorials on specific things, as BigBen mentioned. Further to that I think cyphyr's point that artists are the ones who can really make the most of these programs is very valid. I very much hope that we can generate enough interest in the user community and the graphics community as a whole to justify some books on TG2. As far as I know there is only 1 current Vue book and it is not even on advanced topics. I would like to see us do better with TG2, but of course it is not entirely up to us.

Calico I also think your idea of a basic structure for the documentation writing process is a good one, and is similar to how I have envisioned things in some ways. I am currently contemplating how best to approach the overall documentation as we get nearer to actually being able to write it based on a more final application (it would be wasteful to write too much based on the pre-release, of course). The simple truth is while I have a decent technical knowledge of TG 0.9 and TG2, my artistry, creativity, and general sense of the more complex interactions of things is not the best. There are definitely others who more consistently produce fantastic images and novel techniques. If that is any judge of knowledge or ability, and that may somehow be transmitted or taught, then it is worth capturing. I would definitely enjoy working with other talented people to bring the best possible documentation to our users, and I will investigate these possibilities as much as I can.

The other thing to keep in mind is quite frankly some people are simply predisposed to being good with systems like this, and with creating landscape scenes in general, others are not. This is not even a comment on the ease of use of Terragen or any other software - it is a simple fundamental artistic reality. An amateur but accomplished painter may still feel that the brush in their hand must not be the same brush, or there must be some obscure way of using it, that the master knows. But that is not necessarily so - they may simply see differently, or there is some other unknown factor in play. The simple fact is that Terragen is like any other artistic tool. Some can weild it better than others and no amount of schooling can make up for that. That doesn't mean one shouldn't try to learn or that lessons are not valuable, only that one should set expectations reasonably and not get *too* frustrated that some people seem to be able to do this naturally, nor expect those people to teach it, or even that it necessarily *is* teachable.

I think if there is one thing to learn, one practice that will further your knowledge and ability more than anything, it is the ability to experiment. Gaining intuition and always remembrring the freedom to try things without fear of the consequences is fundamental. A grounding in math can't hurt in playing with function networks too. ;)

- Oshyan