Terragen 3.2 – Podcast interview with Oshyan Greene

Started by Digital Art Live, January 09, 2015, 09:43:49 PM

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Oshyan

The "hollywood model" means different things, what you're talking about isn't really hollywood, it's just traditional film-based storytelling, which is derived from writing, which itself generally has a single "perspective" (at a time), or at least each of its possible perspectives can generally be mapped to a literal perspective/camera on film (the "omniscient observer" being the hardest, generally accomplished through narration, which is reasonably effective though not perfect). The hollywood funding and content selection model is terrible, I'd agree, but the storytelling approach is more about historical precedent and expectation, as well as potential limitations (or at least preferences) in how humans experience narrative and relate to stories. VR isn't going to help address either of these.

The only way to currently create what you're talking about (this huge "meta-narrative") would be total CGI, game environments basically. Even offline rendering (non-realtime) wouldn't really be possible, let alone filming in real life. Either that or accept the limitations of specific camera positions, if not angles (assume 360 degree cameras, but they still have to be positioned *somewhere*, and then you have a finite number of cameras, and perhaps more importantly a finite number of *microphones*. And can you imagine trying to film this kind of thing? It would probably all have to be one take, or at least would be better as one. Even one 1hr take, I mean it's like a play, except on a massive scale. Sounds incredibly hard, if not impossible with current tech. CGI, realtime or otherwise would be more manageable but still a huuuuge undertaking, multiplied by however many stories you want to try to depict.

As for TG's contribution, realistically it is only either as A: a sort of background (like in games presently, skyboxes, etc.), or B: as a less interactive experience (you can only look around, not control your character movement, so to speak), simply due to the limitations of TG's non-realtime rendering approach.

- Oshyan

TheBadger

Well I cant argue that we don't have all the power yet that we need for what I want. But if it takes off (and I am convinced it will in one brand or another) than development will be a whirlwind! Much faster and pervasive than HDTV, it will be more like smart phones and tablets and PCs in that regard. Having not tried it yet myself, I am basing this on the squeals of joy from people who use it, especially non-critic off the street people who have been demoed.
The thing is, it does not have to be the matrix at first, just a personal IMAX, and it will change everything with in a few short years. And its already so much more than that already.

Here is a link to a story about one of the first movies: http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2014/02/19/forget-3d-glasses-new-movie-puts-directly-in-action/

About youtube, this story says NETFLIX is already onboard as a way to distribute, first their library, then arguably new content when its ready: http://www.digitaltrends.com/movies/oculix-mashes-oculus-rift-together-netflix/ It is not so hard to sell content to Netflix as it is to studios, especially if you have a finished product, they buy everything they can.

Now here is a interesting twist on it all: http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2014/10/22/magic-leap-could-be-oculus-rift-killer/

As far as TG goes now, I am learning 360 *video*. While I know and understand what your saying about TG's non-realtime rendering, One thing that we can do now thats still pretty cool is a series of 360 "rooms, where , no you *can't* freely move (only look around), but like you can see in a web browser now, you can "warp" from one place to another. This would still be very entertaining to start with! With audio and some visual effects like wind and such!

QuoteThe "hollywood model" means different things, what you're talking about isn't really hollywood, it's just traditional film-based storytelling,
Well yeah, i am talking about it in terms of Film history classes at film school. Which is how its talked about in criticism and academia. While I did not care much about race and gender in film studies (who goes to see a hollywood movie to get social justice?) I do agree with my teachers and the huge majority of scholars that the "hollywood distribution model" and the "Hollywood naritive", are totally boring and corrupt. I also agree with you that their way of picking films to develop is not the best for sure.

VR will change both because of all the reasons you said, and many many more. I guess we agree, but FILm history is a field of study and thats the only way I know how to talk about it where definitions are mostly consistent.

I don't know, Maybe its not as fascinating to others. But I am in love with this VR stuff. Besides entertainment, I am fascinated by the new ways learning will happen when content is pervasive. One of the problems with "e-learning" is all the studies show that it it completely inferior to in person learning. That learning always works best in person... VR history and geography in person?! Maybe not for a decade more yet. But the more excited we get (and spend) the faster development will come. Games, porn and movies will all but guarantee this.

One last thing.
Did you ever play halo3? At the end there is this slightly interactive monument to the in game war. Where you can move through the battle and see models of everything (like a table top model of the civil war at a museum). This is a good visual of what I meant by an all at once movie. I have no problem at all with it being 3D instead of live actors. Just make it move and there you go http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070915135832/halo/images/7/78/Time_to_Believe.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_EjOWGtkKY4g/TDzDqAH3RLI/AAAAAAAAAW4/2Qrg9EgCUZA/s1600/BT+game+001.jpg
Maybe its too intensive for servers to distribute now, but I think that will change too.

Its like you said in the past. We need to develop better compression methods for data.

Ok so maybe I will be wrong. But I think I will be mostly right in the end. Even if it takes slightly longer than I (we?) want.
It has been eaten.

TheBadger

Oh, and, that is why I am glad TG is getting in the game as much as it can. If RIFT and the sony and others fly at all, they will soar! Otherwise it will just crash and burn. I just cant imagine how it can be in the middle. Its just too cool. It represents the next mile stone to me. And I don't think you have to be an expert in anything to see it, mostly.
It has been eaten.

Oshyan

Some interesting links there. The Netflix thing is really just a gimick, but I was honestly surprised to see someone is already making a documentary for Oculus Rift. Pretty cool. He describes the challenges well, and suggests that using game design-derived techniques is a good way to start reframing the "movie" development process, which I agree with. I will say, however, that many story-driven games these days *still* use somewhat forced viewer frames, for example in a first-person shooter during a story segment, your ability to control your character is often limited or none, maybe you can turn your head a *bit* but not fully away from the action for example. That kind of limitation becomes a much bigger problem on Oculus though because the user can *physically* turn their head wherever they want, and if you start limiting their frame at all, then their physical movement no longer maps properly to their view and it becomes disorienting and/or frustrating. So, still lots of challenges to deal with, but it's good to see people are working on them.

- Oshyan

TheBadger

Hey Oshyan, You have not said if you are planing to buy? Do you have a development kit (or matt maybe?) Or will you? Or are you going to wait and see?

You definitly seem more cautiously optimistic on a personal side. I dont count PS, because that is business, and its completely understandable why you would control excitement expectations. But personally are you going to buy? Maybe the sony?
I mean I know that you are working with developers, and you can't talk about that part. But that counts as secrete knowledge, and I cant argue or learn from a secrete I am not in on, very saldly (that Im anot in o n it ;D)

Maybe you will spill the beans and tell us whats happening behind the curtian!  ;)
It has been eaten.

Oshyan

I don't have one and I plan to wait and see how the initial production run goes. Matt might buy one though. ;)

- Oshya

TheBadger

MATT! Spill the beans matt. NDA pffft, feed the beast!
It has been eaten.

Matt

I have the DK2, but other priorities have meant I haven't spent much time with it yet.

Matt
Just because milk is white doesn't mean that clouds are made of milk.

TheBadger

Any chance the pro erosion will be out in time to use in the contest? Man what a aspirin that would be for my headaches!
It has been eaten.

Oshyan

No, I'm afraid not. But there's plenty of good Iceland terrain around. :)

- Oshyan

TheBadger

It has been eaten.

Oshyan

Cool. A shame I don't have a Rift, but maybe Matt can check it out at some point and let us know, hehe.

- Oshyan

TheBadger

It has been eaten.

Upon Infinity


archonforest

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