MODO 901

[efflux]

I don't know why they split but I guess they wanted to create a new architecture from the ground up that would be better than Lightwave. These things take a long time though. The code behind these apps must be colossal. I can understand bugs. That's always going to happen but blatent in your face bugs the minute you start doing anything is just unacceptable. I'm sure there are bugs in Terragen but not ones you find easily.

Terragen doesn't need any hype because a lot of people know what it is now and it's unique. Vue is the only other app dedicated to landscaping. I do however think that when Terragen 2 or the first incarntion of the new app came out, it could have been better but Planetside is tiny so they can't possibly do everything. Over hype can be worse because that can create a lot of negativity with users. the Modo forum has turned a lot more negative recently. You can't massively increase prices and massively increase bugs and expect hobbyist users to be happy. Modo might be cheap compared to some other apps but it's still a lot of money. There is lightwave and Cinema 4D. Cinema 4D is actually very good. At least it was compared to the apps when I I tried it but this was also a while ago. It's more expensive though. Blender can't be discounted either. My only gripes with that are that the cycles rendering engine basically isn't finished and won't be for ages and Blender isn't as good at larger scenes as Modo is. Other than that though, Blender is quite capable of doing a lot of what many people need from a 3D app. Also, Blender is not full of bugs.

[Kadri]

Yes. Newtek tried to rewrite Lightwave but that was a complete failure and a waste of time.
Cinema4D is good from what i have seen but too expensive. And Blender...i am still struggling with the GUI as always.
This might be one of the times i try regularly Blender ones again. Some of the fire and water effects capabilities are what i want to try actually.
I looked for Realflow etc. They are so expensive. No way to buy them.

[efflux]

I watched those other videos on Lightwave. the snapping looks much like it is in Modo. The problem is that the snapping seems to simply not work right in some cicunstanes or zoom levels etc. It could be my doing but I'll be snapping through points and it snaps to values way off from the points it's meant to be snapping to. This seems to fix if I zoom in but it's just not good. I always watch precisly what I'm doing if it's something like a buolding. this has to be accurate not because you need super accuracy in a CAD sense but simply that if things aren't right, the model will be screwed up.

I still have to work through a lot of things though. There is a hellishly complex system of action centres which obviously screws you up if you haven't got to grips with it.

I might try svg importing to Modo. That way you could potentially lay out plans then take to 3D.

This is free. It's probably very limited in capability but notice how easy and clear it is to use. Your'e concerntrating purely on the form not a bunch of polys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXgMY3-hlgs

I notice a lot of things he actually does here, Wings 3D can do in an almost as easy way. Wings can't cut holes in things though. This is a limitation of the winged edge data structure. Some of these things actually require a bunch of work in Modo though.

There is a free Linux CAD program but that looks like hell to use.

[efflux]

Actually, I haven't been fully through that house building tutorial in Lightwave but that looks like it's worth watching even if you don't use Lightwave. This is exactly my problem. Modo is not good for this. I want to get into architectural type stuff.

[Kadri]

I bought LWCad after i saw that house tutorial. It is nearly all Hard modeling if i do it at all
Just for the record LWCad is a third party plugin. It does have a very fast frequently development.
Not sure but i think he wants to port it to other software too.

[efflux]

I wish you had never shown me that LWCAD. I knew there would tools for this type of thing but I've been on their site looking at all the awesome building renders. This would just cut out all the crap you'd have to do in say Modo. I don't get why they don't try to improve this a bit because surely Modo combined with even remotely more CAD friendly tools would have commercial appeal. If you already had Lightwave and wanted this function, the plugin would be worth it.

[efflux]

Is there anything remotely decent for CAD stuff similar to that Lightwave plugin but standalone? The big CAD programs are simply not for the casual user, cost wise.

[TheBadger]

Im still reading along with this thread. Looking forward to hear what the final judgment of MODO is, Efflux.

I am not really worried about the bugs, though I fully 100% understand the griping on the net about them. I just feel like it is impossible (nearly) that they wont get fixed. And I doubt very much that it will be anything like AutoDesk where bugs remain for years.

Again, I think you can't really look at MODO as just a modeler. My worry is about rigging and weighting and animating. I would very much like to see work done with Modo alone, like what we have seen from LW. I refer to that famous video of the hand inside the head (like a puppet) Where the face looked absolutely human real. Blew me away.

Natural humanoid movement and fur and hair are also a big interest of mine. The easier these things become to do with software, the happier I will be.

Its not, I think, a hard choice anymore. There are a very few full software packages. You can easily cutout the ones you can't afford, and one or two due to personal industry politics or general personal opinion. And then you are left with just 1-3 to pick from.

In terms of cost and what you get for the money, value, I don't see how you beat MODO. LW? Sure. But then its going to be about personal preference, UI and such. I feel like it is understandable then why MODO is growing.

Another thing to think on is the future. I feel like unless some strange thing happens, MODO will have a long run. Even if it gets bought and sold as a company, Modo will continue to be developed for a long time. And in the long run, I am betting that it will advance to where Maya (for example) is in the industry, beyond modeling I mean. Where you can not only do every part of the creative pipeline in modo, but you can do it all at a very high quality. But to be clear, no, it IS pretty obvious that MODO cant do all the animating that MAYA can yet (not sure about Houdini for rigging and weighting).

But then again, its all a gamble one way or another anyway.

[efflux]

Yeah, I can't actually see Modo failing. It would just be suicide to go this far with such potential then mess things up but it is a gamble because it takes time to learn these apps. I'll be at Modo for months. I'm actually not that interested in animation in terms of character rigging etc but if you are creating stuff in an app that has all that animation capability then all the better.

I'm tired of niche apps that go to the wall commercially. Mojoworld was a particular disaster because most people that used that spent a hell of a lot of time learning it. I don't see this fate for Terragen though. It's different. I used Logic for years then Apple screwed it up with a lot of bloat and endless bugs and actual downgrades of features in favour of fancy looking UI. It's not even the cost. Logic is cheap now but it didn't used to be. However, you invest time learning. So then I had to mess around in all the other DAWs and settled for Reaper. One reason is that so many people use it but it's cool because it's very customizable and no bloat like Logic. Regular updates to fix bugs. It does still have some annoying bugs but not as many as Logic.

Also, why not use apps where you at least have potential to earn some money? You can't do this with Terragen but it could be part of a group of apps to do this.

[Kadri]

Modo will be here probably for a long time.
The most dangerous thing that could happen is the same fear that they had when they were sold lately.
Like Autodesk buying them and screwing it like they did to Softimage.

[efflux]

A big solution for Modo at the moment would be an archviz style plugin. It wouldn't even have to be nurbs. If they could do for archviz what they did with the boolean style workflow of Meshfusion it would be awesome. The big CAD programs cost an absolute fortune as well. I was on youtube looking at FreeCAD which is an open source CAD program. it's not good though. it'll take years for that to go anywhere but the view counts on the videos are huge so that shows you the potential market for any cheaper commercial app. I bet that Lightwave plugin sold really well. The videos of the house building have depressed me. I knew it could be easy but that plugin just throws in your face how bad Modo currently is for this type of thing.

There are a lot of Modo fanboys though it seems. I just read this on an architectural forum:

"Modo is a great application. Does it work for ArchViz hell yes it does and works well in all areas you outlined. 701 is stable and a very viable version. It's real benefit is ease of modeling, however the workflow is different from Max, way different."

I say hell no, it's not good for archviz if you want to do it all in Modo.

[efflux]

Maybe I should study the macro functionality of Modo. I think for example you could set up macros for various things like punching in windows etc. It wouldn't match that Lightwave plugin but still, it might work.

[Kadri]

I watched the DesignSpark Mechanical video.Looks nice.

[efflux]

I'll have to just proceed with Modo. I'm thinking of ways to deal with the drawbacks. You'd need to create more macro functions. That Andy Bell video before demos the nightmare. In fact Modo is so deficient in this area that Bell even had to create macros just to do what Wings 3D can do without a macro.

[Kadri]

Fanboys are everywhere. In the Lightwave forums too of course (lately not so much.Not a good sign ) .
I know it does have its limits.
There are sometimes post that say if it wasn't for Denis Pontonnier plugins (he even does have a nice tree plugin for free) , LWCad and like for plugins below
for example the user base would have been much worse then it is now:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_sU7HrtuMY

If they can get through the coming 3-5 years they might have still a chance.