The Truth About The College Student Debt Crisis

Started by AP, July 23, 2015, 11:52:30 PM

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Kadri

#1

Do you have a long Terragen render going on Chris? :D

For 5-10 minutes of interesting things there are of 50 minutes of shallowness.

Shortly he says "Education is expensive so be careful if you need it or not"(and the humiliation of Educators etc.).

Then make education free.
Is it so hard to say?

Is it the end of all kind of problems? No.
But the problem is much deeper and different for many countries then this guy can ever understand.

We have guys like him here too. They are half intellectuals.
They can use numbers to show that their political or whatever views are true very nicely.
Right wing or left wing it doesn't matter. They think always that they are smarter then everybody.

I have watched the video for 1 hour. Please read this.
http://www.alternet.org/corporate-accountability-and-workplace/chomsky-how-americas-great-university-system-getting?sc=fb

No i don't say that everything he says is true.
But you can see a "fact" that somebody says, in a quite different way very easily if it is based on economics and politics.



TheBadger

Quote from: ChrisC on July 23, 2015, 11:52:30 PM
https://youtu.be/kFKHvwiuArA

Quote from: Kadri on July 24, 2015, 01:55:39 AM


I have watched the video for 1 hour. Please read this.
http://www.alternet.org/corporate-accountability-and-workplace/chomsky-how-americas-great-university-system-getting?sc=fb



LOL! Between those two links I feel like all hope is dead. But thats ok, because I don't go by feelings. Anyway, I can reason perfectly that all hope is dead, so no reason to feel bad about it.
It has been eaten.

AP

#3
Well, I had very legit reasons as to why I never went to Art School a few years back but is it all doom and gloom, nope. As for renders, I have so much going on my brain is overloaded at times. I'll post something soon. I am working on some renders using World Creator terrains for one.

No such thing as free education, someone has to pay for it and taxes are high enough as it is. The other way to pay, print more money? The future of education should be home schooling, on-the-job-training, vocational schools, local private schools, stuff any person could learn off of a cell phone, a home computer. The very idea of public education is a dismal failure. The history of the Prussian School System proves this. It never really worked. Central planning is a disaster. Education should be privatized and localized at the very least. 

It might be true that these issues could be limited to North America but is any form of centrally planned education a good idea in any part of the world. What makes anyone think a bunch of total strangers in a centralized bureaucracy know what is best for every student and teacher?

It is not that he thinks he is smarter then everyone else. There is a reason he tries to back himself up with links below his videos so therefore one can decide for themselves but as a former student myself and seeing with my own eyes what public education does to the individual and his/her freedoms I am no fan of the public centrally planned system of schooling. There is a good set of reasons why the Prussian system can not work.

Stefan talked about the GI Bill giving free education and why it was a bad idea, it's in his video. They said higher education was close to free on the 40s and 50s but how was it done? In order for something to be "free" you have to take something away from others to pay for it. You can not make something for free out of thin air.

If Government was never involved so knee deep in education, tuition would still be low, near free as it was and the debt would not be an issue, again Stefan lays all of that out in his video. His charts correlate quite well along with what Noam Chomsky was saying around that same time period. The time that the Dept of Education was formed and Lyndon B. Johnson's crazy societal ideas.

Corporate special interests are because of Government allowing this as well. Corporatism, crony Capitalism to use another term. Monopolies only exist because Government gives them special rights and funding.

That link states "enable them to become creative, independent people who can find excitement in discovery and creation and creativity at whatever level or in whatever domain their interests carry them." Well, sad to say the Prussian model conflicts with that as it is based on group think, collectivism and obeying an authority figurehead no matter what they say as right or wrong, you must obey.

Like he says "if people are creative and independent and free." then Government AKA central planning has no place in education nor the Prussian model. That is what opposes being free to learn.

AP

Quote from: TheBadger on July 24, 2015, 02:39:40 AM
Quote from: ChrisC on July 23, 2015, 11:52:30 PM
https://youtu.be/kFKHvwiuArA

Quote from: Kadri on July 24, 2015, 01:55:39 AM


I have watched the video for 1 hour. Please read this.
http://www.alternet.org/corporate-accountability-and-workplace/chomsky-how-americas-great-university-system-getting?sc=fb



LOL! Between those two links I feel like all hope is dead. But thats ok, because I don't go by feelings. Anyway, I can reason perfectly that all hope is dead, so no reason to feel bad about it.

Don't feel too down. History has it's ups and downs. Humanity is still here after all this time.

Kadri


"No such thing as free education, someone has to pay for it and taxes are high enough as it is." After this nothing much more to say.
I will pay a little more to have sophisticated people around me. I don't want brainwashed,uneducated (yeah education can that too of course) people around me.

You don't believe in human induced climate change?
Don't want firearms restriction? (Hi Michael :D )
Are against free health care for everyone? Etc.

Have you read that link?
Trying to arguing with you would be like talking to that video as it looks.
This debate is pointless and nothing more then deja vu.
Have a nice day Chris.

PS:I would be pleased if i am wrong in some of my assumptions :)

Kadri


Was curious about that guy and searched a little around.
He really looks like a guy that can say some interesting things here and there but comes with a ton of dangerous garbage.
Those are the worst ones. I will not watch anything from him anymore.
"He is also a global warming skeptic" I wasn't surprised at all.


Upon Infinity

Politicians can no more make education (or anything else, for that matter) free, anymore than they can change the direction of the earth's rotation.  And they'll be the first to burn you at the stake for suggesting it's even rotating.   ;)

Economic law deniers aside, the cause of exorbitantly high prices for post-secondary education is subsidizing and price-fixing at the government level.  Whatever you subsidize you get more of. This is plainly clear to anyone who's crossed an international border.  You subsidize the high cost of post-secondary education, you get higher costs for post-secondary education.  Price-fixing, esp. for interest rates, will also drive up prices for those services. 

Besides which, many schools already offer free courses online for those that are legitimately interested, curious, and determined.  And I believe all Ivy League schools in the U.S. will allow you entry, regardless of your ability to pay, with proven merit.


All the central planners * ∞     <    The Market        <     Perfection


AP

Well, I for one do not support theft AKA taxation no matter what it is used for. We are taught as children not to steal yet it is OK for Government to. How is that moral? Higher education does not guarantee sophisticated people around us. I am a very early high school dropout and have an above average intelligence and have learned a lot how the real world functions. If anything the track record of public education has dumbed down the masses more then anything, recall the Prussian model that does not allow people to so much think for themselves and introduce critical thinking and sound reasoning. If anything it has created brainwashed and uneducated masses. History proves this so there is no debate there. The Nazi's used the same model for the youth.


You don't believe in human induced climate change?

Not when the rest of the solar system is showing rising temperatures due to increased sun spot activity. It's all real science. Also NOAA - National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration is seeing the very real possibility of another global downturn in temperatures in the coming decades. The same thing occurred in the 1700s. I would post links but I can guarantee there is all sorts of data out there but please keep an open mind about it. I spent years coming to my conclusion and I am still learning.


Don't want firearms restriction? (Hi Michael :D )

Because we have a natural human right to self-defense against aggressors. Someone breaking into my home threatening my loved ones are going to get shot. The Police will arrive minutes after. How is that any way justified without a tool, an equalizer being a firearm? Remove firearms and crime goes up. There are stats all over the internet of such cases. Personal horrific stories from the defenseless, historical examples and so on. The Nazi's took away the Guns, guess what happened?


Are against free health care for everyone? Etc.

Again, there is no such thing a free healthcare, Bob has to rob John to pay for this. Free Market healthcare works best.

https://mises.org/library/myth-free-market-healthcare

http://www.surgerycenterok.com/   Other Hospitals are looking into this model.

http://reason.com/reasontv/2012/11/15/the-obamacare-revolt-oklahoma-doctors-fi


Have you read that link?

Yes and some of Noam I agree with and other parts seems like he is still advocating a violent state in some areas. It was a lot of data to take in but I do not agree with no one man 100%. I am a rather free-thinker. I use caution and allow my moral compass to guide me to seeing what works and what does not.


I do not agree with Stefan with all of his ideas, far from it. What we agree on is the actions of the State being immoral. How we solve these matters are another thing but I tell you what. Using the violence of the State is not a solution. If we can not solve our own issues through peaceful cooperative means then the only other alternative is using Government to do it and all throughout history, they use violence, lies, fraud and manipulation against the citizenry. Is this how the world should be ran? Anyone with a sound moral compass would say no.

Debates like this are not pointless. I once to believed in the State to solve our problems. It took a very short time to change my overall ways of thinking. I opened my mind and educated myself. Listened to the Austrian Economists, The Classic Liberals, Milton Friedman, Thomas Sowell, Peter Shiff, Tom Woods, Larken Rose, Adam Kokesh, Ron Paul and others I can not think of at the moment.

If you want to know more, Adam Kokesh has a free book called Freedom and Larken Rose has a book called The Most Dangerous Superstition.

http://www.freeyourmindaz.com/uploads/1/2/8/3/12830241/the-most-dangerous-superstition-larken-rose-2011.pdf

http://thefreedomline.com/freedom/

I can not force change upon anyone. I choose to be free and own myself but as free agents, we can make that decision on our own. I leave that up to you and everyone else.


AP

Quote from: Upon Infinity on July 24, 2015, 05:54:23 AM
Politicians can no more make education (or anything else, for that matter) free, anymore than they can change the direction of the earth's rotation.  And they'll be the first to burn you at the stake for suggesting it's even rotating.   ;)

Economic law deniers aside, the cause of exorbitantly high prices for post-secondary education is subsidizing and price-fixing at the government level.  Whatever you subsidize you get more of. This is plainly clear to anyone who's crossed an international border.  You subsidize the high cost of post-secondary education, you get higher costs for post-secondary education.  Price-fixing, esp. for interest rates, will also drive up prices for those services. 

Besides which, many schools already offer free courses online for those that are legitimately interested, curious, and determined.  And I believe all Ivy League schools in the U.S. will allow you entry, regardless of your ability to pay, with proven merit.


All the central planners * ∞     <    The Market        <     Perfection

Agreed. I wish for more people to understand all of this. Some are figuring it out but the price to pay is a student loan bubble about to pop.

Online education is all there. No excuses why no one can be educated anymore. We have this new market now and knowledge for anyone. I see more parents pulling there children out of public schools now then ever. Are they fools or are they figuring things out because of what information is available on the internet. Word travels like light speed, the game is up and the man can not hide behind the curtain forever.

Kadri

#11

"I am a rather free-thinker." there is no such a thing as free thinker...Well it is sweet to write it in this way,isn't it :)

It is so easy to see in what way you see the world around you.
I think you know me by now. I don't mean it in a harsh-insulting way Chris.
But you are thinking right in the way from where you come from.
Me too in a certain extent of course.

Forget all the other things above. We all are human beings.
And because of money-economical and political views you don't want to help other people when they need it the most?

You use the word "Free" only when you like it like in "Free Market healthcare works best".
The free market doesn't care about humans.It is about money.
And yes  "Bob has to rob John to pay" for healthcare.
What is more important a humans life or money? I hope John will be robed even more the next time.

Robing...That is helping other people. How can you guys think it that way i can not understand. That is egoism to me.

As i said these kind of debates are always the same.
If you want you can write a ton lot more. And i will certainly read it Chris. But i get tired and sad when i see these kind of threads.



TheBadger

Yawn

WW3 is coming, no reason to argue about this stuff anymore. All of the worlds disagreements will soon be settled in a way that is true human nature. First we will say, "hurrah! Peace in our time" than we will start slaughtering one another with all the reverence of a planed parenthood live birth. no one will have time to die from global warming.

So just relax, have some fun, and learn to love the bomb. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcW_Ygs6hm0

::)
It has been eaten.

TheBadger

#13
QuoteDon't want firearms restriction? (Hi Michael :D )

lol, thats funny, because just like you and everyone else on the left, I do want restrictions. restrictions for everyone on the left.  I don't trust a  "progressive" with a gun anymore than I do any other sociopath.
It has been eaten.

Kadri

That movie is good.Can we agree on that at least before the end ? :D