The Dust

Started by DocCharly65, September 01, 2015, 01:11:56 pm

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visualaspirant

Seems awesome. I second Hannes on the motion blur. Fantastic camera moves and everything.

j meyer

Yay,cool!
And I don't miss the motion blur.

DocCharly65

October 07, 2015, 12:13:34 pm #17 Last Edit: October 07, 2015, 12:18:06 pm by DocCharly65
Thanks guys  :)

Funny thing is that Hannes and Ulco are both right! Depending on what you fix with your eyes, you don't see the moving of either the grass or the bugs.
But that's not really important later, because the scene will move to an other place and be much longer so that you see it anyway.

The motion blur seems to be a kind of peronally taste.  :D Especially because I love watching "let's plays" on youtube, I know about many  discussions between some players switching the motion blur on or off in their games. Some like it, some don't. In my "big plan" I had same experiences like Hannes and I did some experiments. Result of successless research is the version now without. I don't really miss it too...  ;)

Especially hint for you, Hannes: I found some flickering on the Viper and read that you try to get rid of it with your vehicles. Perhaps you should check if it's reflection of the changing underground. The flickering of the viper is 99% on the bottom and looks like a plausible reflection of the ground... So I not only accept it - I need and like it. I hope it helps  ;)


... Many scenes waiting... also the speederbikes will pass the desert. The look will be the same but a lower speed...  and a special sound  ;D
Further the cavern and the suburban road will take place in the movie. And There is still the scene at the poolhouse and in the living room.

Perhaps after learning to change poses of my Lara Croft, I will let her walk through the desert with swaying hips?  ;) OK - a joke! - I swear you, guys - THAT WILL NEVER HAPPPEN (Though I told the same about the dust clouds behind the Viper...)  ;D ;D

Pfff... looks like 2030 instead of 2020? I must hurry ... in 2030 perhaps my fingers are too stiff to use a PC   :o ::) ;D

Oshyan

Very impressive! The "gnats" are a surprisingly good effect. Well animated I guess, the motion really "sells" it. The moving plants work well too, even with the simple movement approach you used. I personally would enjoy even more of the beginning sunset stuff, though the "viper" flight is also fun. :D

For motion blur, I definitely think you should try it. It is simply *the way our eyes work*. Yes it can be a personal preference, but I don't think the video game comparison is quite valid because video games have skill and competitiveness involved. So absolute realism is not necessarily the goal, rather you want to have the clearest, sharpest view and the quickest reaction, which motion blur negatively affects. But in trying to achieve *realism*, you do generally want motion blur. Game motion blur also has quality issues, etc. that make it less good even for "realism" scenarios.

I would suggest you try simple 2D motion blur in Terragen. But one thing you can do if you're worried about applying motion blur on a long render and then not liking the result and "wasting" the render time is: output render elements, specifically Depth and Motion Vector layers. You can then render *without* 2D motion blur enabled, and then later use an Image Processing Node and enable motion blur and you can apply *2D motion blur* as a simple post process this way (3D motion blur is a bit more realistic, but it needs to be applied *at render time*; and I doubt you'd notice the difference anyway here). Your primary output format would then need to be EXR I believe, so the Image Processor can process the original files. It adds a step, then, of converting from EXR to your destination format (unless your video editor can load EXR, which is ideal, more dynamic range!). Anyway, it can make it a bit more complicated, it's true. But it gives you flexibility. :)

By the way, I want to share your project video(s) on our social media channels. Do you think now is a good time, or will there be another major change/improvement in the near future?

- Oshyan

DocCharly65

Wow. A big honor, Oshyan!
In general I say yes, but we must discuss about the "major changes in the near future"  :) PM already on the way.

.
.
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And the other thing I will do in the following weeks is studiing that motion blur stuff... I already understood two or three words... I'm sooooo fast...  ;)

Oshyan

Great, I'll read what you've sent. :D

And, from my perspective, your progress *has* been quite fast! You are already producing some of the best, longest, and most technically sophisticated animations of anyone on the forums. I think that is pretty notable.

- Oshyan

DocCharly65

October 07, 2015, 04:45:52 pm #21 Last Edit: October 07, 2015, 04:47:57 pm by DocCharly65
Thanks Oshyan  :)

I'm already studiing again just in my head...

For the moment I can tell what I understand and what happend: With motion blur ON I get the vehicles (in this case the viper) blurred too and this looks really bad. I only tried the 3d Motion blur... I will check what happens with 2D motion blur.

Setting the Viper in "hold out" produced a black area I could theoretically use for masking and inserting the Viper not blurred later.
BUT the black mask was blurred too so I feared an unnatural look of the composition... Just deactivating the Viper I also loose the shadow... Complicatedd situation. I just use "hobby-software" (Magix) and unfortunately have not the time and energy to learn another software at this time. Some simple "green-screen effects" are possible in Magix and some settings can be changed but not really professional. And at that point I gave up first time.

A very very heplful button would be the possibility to "keep out" objects from the blur effect...

I must study your suggestion again, perhaps it's already there what I wish and I just don't understand the usage  ;) ::)

Hannes

Don't use "Holdout", use "invisible" instead, if you want to render the background separately. Thus you get no strange silhouette and the shadows of the object will be in place.
That's what I did in my Star Wars desert hunt scene. In another take you can render the viper. Let me summarise what I did (and what worked), if you don't mind (only in case you are willing to composite your layers together later):

for the viper create a GI cache first for each frame, then render the viper without motion blur with an animated crop region, so that the boundaries are always close to the object. Thus you'll have much shorter rendertimes.
After that you uncheck "render surface" in the Planet's properties, disable Atmosphere, all lighting, GI surface details and set GI cache detail and sample quality to 0. Everything only to make rendertimes as short as possible.

Render out the Extra output image sequence in the Sequence/Output-tab of the render node and you'll have your alpha sequence, which you can use as a mask for the viper.

It's really worth it!!!

DocCharly65

Thanks Hannes  :)
As you perhaps can see I was already convinced to give it a try after reading your starwars post.

Will be a long laborious weekend, but if it works...  as you say it's worth it  :)

otakar

I agree with Oshyan, one of the best TG animations I have seen. And the sound and camera is really well put together also. Did you really render this in high res? Must have taken forever...

DocCharly65

October 07, 2015, 08:53:36 pm #25 Last Edit: October 07, 2015, 09:06:53 pm by DocCharly65
Thanks otakar :)
I rendered all in "usual low" HD (1280x720 = 720p) Then batch-upscaled with XNView to 1920x1080. Gives an almost good full-HD-look.
Rendertime was not really so long... but meanwhile I calculate in different dimensions. One or two weeks rendertime are "nothing". The actual video needed app. 4 weeks (3 PC running in parallel).

And last minute:
Only another very small new step... of course I couldn't sleep untill I would have tried this...

I will need a different procedure because with the way Hannes did, I don't get any of my reflective shaders rendered (means most of my rendered image is invisable ;D ). My way:

1. Rendering the complete animation WITH motion blur INVISABLE Viper (20 min per frame)
2. Rendering the complete animation WITHOUT motion blur HOLDOUT Viper (deleted all unnecessary objects and pops - 7-10 minutes per frame)
3. Rendering the complete animation WITHOUT motion blur included Viper (already done)

1. is the blurred background with shadow of the Viper
2. gives me the alpha channel
3. is the Viper sharp and with (not blurred) background for avoiding black borders of the Viper

Result:
[attachimg=1]

Combined image test:
[attach=2]

Now I must really really sleep ;)
Over night I can run the "alpha rendering"
And tomorrow I can care about the best amount of moption blur

Good night everyone :)


Oshyan

Is your test using 2D motion blur or 3D?

- Oshyan

DocCharly65

October 07, 2015, 09:01:30 pm #27 Last Edit: October 07, 2015, 09:03:29 pm by DocCharly65
3D seems to work good.

The still image is upscaled by Magix itself and not XNView - grainy and less nice look - but good enough for the test

Oshyan

Try the 2D. Really. 3D will be noisy unless you use high AA. 2D will not be noisy (although with this much motion it *may* not be as good, but should be tried!).

- Oshyan

DocCharly65

October 08, 2015, 01:32:03 am #29 Last Edit: October 08, 2015, 01:34:09 am by DocCharly65
Already awake again  ;)
And there seems to start a little success:

PC is already rendering "Alpha frame 95"
I tested two frames with 2D motion blur 0.25 length

I begin to like it...

[attach=1]

[attach=2]

I am curious now, how it all works in motion  ;)

I recognized a mistake, I very often do with TG3: some results don't appear until "basic" rendering of the frame is finished. So you don't see it in the render view window. And waiting up to 1.5 hrs for a frame I got impatient and thought the effect doesn't work.