NWDA's 2016 Theme Challenge Brainstormin

Started by DannyG, October 10, 2015, 01:53:01 PM

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masonspappy

I think a couple of things need to be  decided:
- is this to be 'Terragen only'? or 'Terragen Mainly'?  If it is to be a true Terragen contest then I would think that only Terragen can be used.  (not xFrog, Speedtree, Blender, DAZ, Poser, etc).
- if plant populations are allowed then perhaps all entries need to be limited to the max number of populations allowed in the free version ( I think it's 3 pops but anyone correct me if I'm wrong).
Seems like that would level the playing field a bit and put everyone on equal footing.


Dune

#16
No comment  8)

zaxxon

The last contest's winner used World Machine. It was a beautiful and worthy image, but still relied upon a non-native (to TG) application. Personally I feel that TG's population tools are an area of strength (beats the heck out of the next competitor Vue!). But I certainly echo prior thoughts that a well stocked vegetation inventory would be a decided advantage in a Jungle (or similar) type of theme. Honestly, if we're trying to include the free version users in the competition, then why not limit all entries to the capabilities of the free version? Also limit any vegetation and props to ones freely available online? That would level the playing field for sure. To create a fine image still relies upon composition, atmosphere and artistic vision, so why not limit everyone to the same tools?

My thoughts.

Tangled-Universe

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, everyone actually.

The last posts already deal more about potential rules and restrictions, but I think discussing the contest rules in detail already is a bit premature.
I suggest we try to keep it as simple as possible and first decide on the theme.
Then work from there, although I understand some of the concerns relate to a certain theme.

Please keep going with sharing your ideas of course!
Restricting aspects of the software/models involved have both up- and downsides, so it's definitely interesting to hear thoughts about that to get a clear picture.

However, like I said, discussing it all in detail is premature and may actually potentially take away the fun of choosing a theme for all of us and preparing a contest for Danny and us :)

Cheers,
Martin

bobbystahr

Quote from: Tangled-Universe on October 11, 2015, 09:03:36 AM
Rivers and especially geological themes are great ideas.

Space shots and anything heavily related to flora/fauna objects are not really showcasing TG's specific capabilities as I think you get the nicest results with Terragen if you use its strengths.

How about a Jungle River....the  Amazon jumps to mind....that'd be fun!
something borrowed,
something Blue.
Ring out the Old.
Bring in the New
Bobby Stahr, Paracosmologist

archonforest

I echo zaxxon about software restriction. The only problem here is that we are talking about an NWDA challenge and not a TG challenege. NDWA is not only for TG thus software restriction cannot be done. I would say we need to find a theme that will make the chances equal to win either using TG or WM or whatever. Or NWDA has to announce a TG challenge only :P
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Amiga 1200 8Mb ram, 8Gb ssd

zaxxon

I understand what you are saying TU, however if as some folks are suggesting that the rules may be in play (myself included), then shouldn't that be settled before a theme is chosen? Certainly it's the NWDA that sets the rules, understood. World machine has been a sponsor in the past and to exclude it's use in the contest would not be good. But the question is: does possession of WM give an entrant an advantage? If IDV (ST) were a sponsor would NWDA then allow ST objects? While NWDA does provide products to the general CG community, most seem to be TG oriented. So in my estimation the NWDA could define and limit any software they choose, or the objects that those apps produce.

But having said that, my suggested theme would be: A glorious sky. Create a simple foreground and place it in an inspiring atmosphere. Certainly TG's atmospheric engine is a major strength, and it would be a theme approachable by all here.

Tangled-Universe

Quote from: zaxxon on October 12, 2015, 01:03:46 PM
I understand what you are saying TU, however if as some folks are suggesting that the rules may be in play (myself included), then shouldn't that be settled before a theme is chosen? Certainly it's the NWDA that sets the rules, understood. World machine has been a sponsor in the past and to exclude it's use in the contest would not be good. But the question is: does possession of WM give an entrant an advantage? If IDV (ST) were a sponsor would NWDA then allow ST objects? While NWDA does provide products to the general CG community, most seem to be TG oriented. So in my estimation the NWDA could define and limit any software they choose, or the objects that those apps produce.

But having said that, my suggested theme would be: A glorious sky. Create a simple foreground and place it in an inspiring atmosphere. Certainly TG's atmospheric engine is a major strength, and it would be a theme approachable by all here.

This is the OP from Danny.

Quote from: Danny on October 10, 2015, 01:53:01 PM
I am creating this thread so we can get some input from the community on potential themes for our 2016 Challenge. We would like to hear from you guys and gals..... What Theme would you like to see in the next Challenge?

And is why I suggested to keep it simple by sticking to the request of sharing ideas for a theme :)

Any discussion about the rules following this post is not started by NWDA. Ignore Ulco ;) :D

I'm not Danny of course, so he will deal with this later, but I'm pretty sure that at this stage he's keen on hearing themes.
We'll worry about the rest later.

What would be fun? That's the only question, basically.

Ariel DK

totally agree with Archonforest, about find a theme that will make the chances equal to win either using TG or whatever. however I also agree that we should focus more on the theme of challenge rather than the rules.
Hmmm, what version of Terragen does God use?

Walli

theme first , rules later ;-)

-covered in clouds
-river
-first step
-strata
-cave
-avalanche
-at the beach
-reef
-crater

Oshyan

Hopefully this is not just going to stir up the "rules before theme/theme before rules" debate further, but rather allow us to set it aside for the moment. So here are my thoughts, and if you are satisfied enough by this approach then let's leave it there for now and discuss details later:

The issue of free version users being able to fairly participate, and problems of varying levels of income and access to resources influencing the results, have been brought up at almost every contest we've seen around TG. There has never been a really good solution in my view. But I've had a thought.

I suggest we consider differentiating the awards/prizes based on the kinds of restrictions discussed above. There could be a "Best Free Version Entry", a "Best Pure Landscape" (no populations, etc.), and/or "Best Terragen-only" prize. This not only addresses the concerns expressed above, it also allows NWDA to tailor the prize package to best fit the category. After all someone who is competing in "Best Free Version Entry" is a lot more likely to benefit from a TG3 Pro license than someone who isn't eligible (i.e. owns Terragen already). And we've had several winners in the past who already did own TG, and either donated their prize (very nice of them!) or used it as a minor upgrade (an equivalent prize of just $150 for example vs. $699 for someone who doesn't own TG at all yet, for the same prize!).

It would probably require some minor modifications to how entries are submitted, but it should not be too difficult. Everyone would enter into the same general pool as a baseline, that way anyone can win the Grand Prize. Then each entry could also be optionally submitted into additional judging categories, Free Version, Pure Landscape, etc. The selection of categories would be done by the entrant. Categories would need to have very clear criteria so people could select appropriately. Scene files would need to be provided for verification upon request, and Planetside could check the registration DB in cases of Free Version usage doubts.

Obviously there would need to be (separate!) discussion about what categories there should be, and the total number of such additional categories should be kept to a minimum, with the selection probably influenced most by the idea of improving fairness overall (e.g. the free version category). It's also still an open question whether there would be 2nd and 3rd prizes in addition to these, or if the category-based prizes would replace them. But in any case I think it's a potentially effective solution, and even if it's not *the* solution chosen, I hope we can proceed on the fair assumption that a solution *will* be found so that we can concentrate for now on what the best theme would be and ignore the otherwise unrelated issues of fairness, resource access, etc. that I do not think should influence the choice of a *theme*.

- Oshyan

archonforest

Oshyan you got this right!
IMHO this is the only correct and fair way here.  8)
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Amiga 1200 8Mb ram, 8Gb ssd

masonspappy


AP


Upon Infinity

I always thought there should be a contest to see who can make the best looking TG default scene.  I'll throw it out there, but I'm not married to it.