V2 vs. V3 clouds

Started by Hannes, September 16, 2016, 09:48:40 AM

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Hannes

I just found out that there may be good reasons for using the good old V2 clouds instead of the new ones.
At the moment I'm rendering my forest animation with some lightrays created using a localised cloud layer. GI calculation and rendertimes were quite high, so I took a deeper look.
In my first attempts GI calculation took 5 minutes per frame, and the rendering almost half an hour.
Then I realised that it's a V3 cloud layer. So I created a V2 layer with identical (as far as possible) settings and voilĂ  Gi calculation only took one minute and the rendering was done in eight minutes.
So for dust and mist the old V2 clouds are ideal. I hope they won't be abandoned in the future!!

ajcgi

I agree with this whole heartedly for now.
I say for now because if a software contains a few different tools for the same task and over many years keeps increasing its legacy support, therein lies bugs and ultimately something horribly unwieldy like, *gulp* Maya, which I regularly despair at.
Please guys, don't make another Maya. We already have one too many.

fleetwood

Agree, I've had V3 results where pre-pass calculations started taking a very long time before even before posting any pixels at all to the black screen.
Must say I don't feel I have a handle on why and when yet. But all shared information is helpful.

Hannes

Don't get me wrong, I love these new clouds. They look amazing, but for some tasks the old ones are very useful. Maybe they could be renamed in the future like " simple clouds" or something like that, as long as they will remain there.

bobbystahr

Quote from: Hannes on September 16, 2016, 11:06:41 AM
Don't get me wrong, I love these new clouds. They look amazing, but for some tasks the old ones are very useful. Maybe they could be renamed in the future like " simple clouds" or something like that, as long as they will remain there.

I think you may have nailed a problem I've been having with visible light...off to test. Thanks for pointing that out.
something borrowed,
something Blue.
Ring out the Old.
Bring in the New
Bobby Stahr, Paracosmologist

Dune

I totally agree. But I don't think Matt will abandon the V2 clouds easily, as they can be used globally and many (pro) users have 'old' files that need to stay renderable! I also used them for my dust devils and they need absolutely to be V2.

fleetwood

I'm not critical of V3 either. The more advanced light modeling of V3 is the way to go and already shows some great results. It's a bit ironic that trying to learn to use the new tools of V3 is only now making me review and understand better some things about using the older V2. All to the good, more tools in the tool box.

zaxxon

Agree, agree, agree! The V3 clouds; both regular and 'Easy' will have their places, but for me the V2 cloud are pretty darn good and a lot faster.

Oshyan

v2 clouds indeed have their place. The new v3 model was implemented primarily to deal with more dense cloud volumes where internal multiple scattering effects have a much higher impact on perceived realism (think large cumulus, for example). The kind of low density mist you're talking about is really not a large challenge for most volumetric scattering models these days, including cloud v2, and since the simpler v2 model is faster, it of course makes sense to use v2 in that scenario. I think in most actual cloud situations v3 is going to give more realistic results - often notably more realistic - but the render time trade-off may not be worth it for everyone or in every situation.

All that is why v2 is still available in the UI. We have always had a focus on maintaining backward compatibility. You can still load and render most TG2 files without issue in TG4. But we have removed a number of older settings or shader versions because they were replaced by newer versions. That's not the case (yet, at least) with v3 clouds vs. v2. Both are still useful and thus both are available in the UI. We may indeed need to work on better naming to differentiate them more clearly and make their respective value more apparent.

- Oshyan

Dune

I still have a little trouble finding the 'old' V2 clouds in the list on the left, so I usually go for the rightclick. I would just add the V2/V3 somewhere.

bobbystahr

Quote from: Dune on September 17, 2016, 02:57:00 AM
I still have a little trouble finding the 'old' V2 clouds in the list on the left, so I usually go for the rightclick. I would just add the V2/V3 somewhere.

I've only found them with a right click and manual inset as well Ulco.
something borrowed,
something Blue.
Ring out the Old.
Bring in the New
Bobby Stahr, Paracosmologist