Transform Translation and Distorting PFs

Started by WAS, May 08, 2018, 03:05:31 PM

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WAS

When I transform my Galaxy Background, the entire structure changes ass if I hit a new seed? Why is this? Are the noises not translating with everything else? Trying to make it so the background can be centered in your scene without building a scene around a fix position, especially since the construction of the scene is straight up out of most cameras viewport in scenes.

Kadri


By background what you mean (which method did you use to make it) ?

WAS

Quote from: Kadri on May 08, 2018, 04:32:37 PM

By background what you mean (which method did you use to make it) ?

This is on the background sphere object like the previous night sky or others works. It's not a 3D cloud setup.  So it's prone to distortion when translating, to begin with, but I notice when you correct this with rotation, and position, the actual PF masks, and forms, are different.

Kadri


As a side note the further from zero you get, the more problematic will be position changes in every 3D program (you know this i think).

If you change the position of the background you have to change the position in the same way of the power fractals etc too.
If you did that and still see that problem it might be related to the above, but can't say anything without seeing the scene.

If you will, get rid of the parts you don't want to share and share what you can here to have a look.




WAS

Quote from: Kadri on May 08, 2018, 05:00:40 PM

As a side note the further from zero you get, the more problematic will be position changes in every 3D program (you know this i think).

If you change the position of the background you have to change the position in the same way of the power fractals etc too.
If you did that and still see that problem it might be related to the above, but can't say anything without seeing the scene.

If you will, get rid of the parts you don't want to share and share what you can here to have a look.

I haven't actually tried changing the position of the background, I've only been translating the the background shaders. Like translating textures so-to-speak. The background is in the same place and size (though haven't tried increasing the radius of the Background object to possibly get less distortion  from spherical anomalies).

I'll see if I can mock up an example where it's easier to see the differences in the PF too.

Kadri

Quote from: WASasquatch on May 08, 2018, 05:15:17 PM

I haven't actually tried changing the position of the background, I've only been translating the the background shaders. Like translating textures so-to-speak. The background is in the same place and size (though haven't tried increasing the radius of the Background object to possibly get less distortion  from spherical anomalies)....

If you translate a fractal on a sphere some parts (depending on axis and where you translate) could be translating as you think like a texture.

But as it is a sphere most other parts will be looking quite different (as Oshyan explained on the other thread about noise animation).
So i can't be sure but from what i understand, what you see is normal in that aspect.

You have to translate the sphere too in the same way.

WAS

#6
Quote from: Kadri on May 08, 2018, 05:29:21 PM
You have to translate the sphere too in the same way.

That's what I was thinking. Just rotating the sphere. Didn't think of it at first.

Here is a mockup example anyway

Screenshot 5 is translated. There is also a render time difference for some reason, where ironically the translated and rotated render is significantly faster. 

WAS


Kadri

The background node does have a Centre setting but i am not comfortable with it.
If i would use this kind of setting, i would use a sphere object(imported sphere or plane object)that you can easily transform like the Transform input shader as a background. Sorry can't help much here.

WAS

#9
Quote from: Kadri on May 08, 2018, 06:11:25 PM
The background node does have a Centre setting but i am not comfortable with it.
If i would use this kind of setting, i would use a sphere object(imported sphere or plane object)that you can easily transform like the Transform input shader as a background. Sorry can't help much here.

That... That's fun. This'll be fun. I look forward to it.   :-X

I was able to put the mockup on a card... with a rotation of 80-85 degres... for some reason?

I've zoomed waaay out in this screen shot (you can see the sun in there we're out so far) and you can see the card object with the stars blends well with the background with the same stars. This can't be said if I put any sort of nebula detail to star background... so at this part not even calling it a work around, just an idea for something basic, like a distant galaxy. I don't know.

Kadri

#10

I tried to make a basic scene with an imported object sphere as an example for you.
But when i used your nodes (from the background node) i got confused what you want to try.
There is rotation and translation.
When i first tried i got nothing until i saw your masks that were rotated and
translated too of course and nothing was left to see in the camera view (i think).

Your translate values are very high too if you take the background sphere radius to account (-2e+008).
If you translate a sphere by that much it would be already problematic maybe.
So really not sure what you are trying to do and what is not working.

WAS

#11
It would probably be best to ingore that translations used to attempt to get the  view I want, and disable them and attempt to get a position from base values. I'd assume that's where one would start when debugging. That's what I did to get there. I just happened to upload a save. The construction scene, is where translation is disabled or at 0,0,0 (or a right click position through coordinates, either works), and thus above the camera in a normal scene. So you need to rotate x by -90 to view it.

All I want is the ability to center the galactic core where you want. When you get coordinates from.right click and translate, there is no depth so it translates on the sphere where it is able, on x and z. It's a easy way to Target where you want the center to be and works with transforming on the sphere, but you have to fiddle with rotation to get a band and not a circle. That's probably where the confusion is. This also changes the masks/pfs look.

Come to think of it the change in shapes probably comes from the Y axis which isn't used EXCEPT by noise when on the sphere. I bet a translation with Y on 0 (or whatever value construction is based on) will yield right results.

Update: Tried keeping all Y axis's at 0 in the galaxy shaders, and when I translated it and rotated, I tried to keep the Y at 0, but still all the shapes are different. So when you translated other translations of shaders, they stay relative, but the textures (PF noises) don't? Seems to be the case

WAS

And hey... it is at least translatable without having to edit every mask.... lol So at least it works.

Kadri

#13
I am testing some XYZ rotations just now.

But in the meantime i thought, if the only thing is rotating the look you see on the background,
maybe making a sphere render and using that as an image map could be easier probably?

Edit: Free version problem i think. Hmmm

Kadri


I tried  rotating your nodes on all axes from zero to 90 and
rotated the camera from -90 to zero (to see the moves of the textures on the background) and they didn't changed shape.
They behaved as they should. They only changed where they are.
Rotating fractals on a sphere should only change the place where they are on a sphere, not their shape.
Not sure why you get different shapes with rotating.

I will test another thing too; rotating translated fractals.