Transform Translation and Distorting PFs

Started by WAS, May 08, 2018, 03:05:31 PM

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WAS

#15
Quote from: Kadri on May 08, 2018, 10:40:56 PM

I tried  rotating your nodes on all axes from zero to 90 and
rotated the camera from -90 to zero (to see the moves of the textures on the background) and they didn't changed shape.
They behaved as they should. They only changed where they are.
Rotating fractals on a sphere should only change the place where they are on a sphere, not their shape.
Not sure why you get different shapes with rotating.

I will test another thing too; rotating translated fractals.

I'm not sure what you are doing differently but you can plainly see from the construction render of the galaxy, to the translated version, every single shape is different besides the SSS's

Also, please check your Facebook messenger. :)

Kadri


Looks like translating is kinda like changing the the centre of the shapes.
So rotating gets different shapes like changing the pivot point of an object and trying to rotate it afterwards.
When you translate the sphere-background too at the same amount rotating the nodes is ok.
Or we got just lucky at the last test :)

WAS

Quote from: Kadri on May 09, 2018, 01:08:19 AM

Looks like translating is kinda like changing the the centre of the shapes.
So rotating gets different shapes like changing the pivot point of an object and trying to rotate it afterwards.
When you translate the sphere-background too at the same amount rotating the nodes is ok.
Or we got just lucky at the last test :)

I think I have what you mean by translating the sphere too, though would this translation of the sphere clip the planet? Little out of it after a 6 hour nap.

Kadri

Quote from: WASasquatch on May 09, 2018, 03:58:36 AM
... though would this translation of the sphere clip the planet?...

Those high translate values could be a problem in that way yes.
You could use a higher radius (not sure how big you can get it without render error or something) for the sphere but then the look of the nodes will change etc.
It is best to plan it in the beginning accordingly.

WAS

#19
Quote from: Kadri on May 09, 2018, 09:28:21 AM
It is best to plan it in the beginning accordingly.

That makes it pretty much useless as a shareable clip file. If you get confused in it, let alone needing to rebuild it in a new location on the background. Was a nice idea. Lots of limitations I am encountering with TG at every turn these days. I've pretty much stopped working with terrain as such and start simply modeling it in blender with their (free) erosion plugins and stuff. Terragen seems powerful for terrain generation in the sense it creates a planet. I'm starting to see less of this powerfulness in practicality over a lot of other programs seeing more casual use in cinema. It's realistic in the sense you can go from orbit to a planets surface without destroying your RAM in another program. Or travel along that planet.

I hope one day erosion comes into TG that's not a 3rd party plugin, or from a third party program. Erosion sorta defines "realistic" terrain.

Matt

#20
The fractals are 3D textures. The background sphere is a 2D surface. The appearance of the background depends where the 2D surface intersects (slices through) the 3D texture. If you translate the 3D texture only, or you translate the 2D surface only, you change the appearance of the slice because it's a different part of the 3D texture.

Now, because this is a sphere that's centred on (0,0,0), you should be able to move the galaxy around simply by rotating the texture around the same point (0,0,0). This will work because all points on the sphere are the same distance from that point, so the slice through the texture is the same.

In Terragen you should be able to do this by adding a Transform Input shader at the very end of the shader network. Even if you have lots of other translations going on, if the rotation is the very last thing at the end of the network then it should work. But you can only use rotation, not translation. If you use translation in the very last transform, then you'll need to move the sphere by the same amount.

Matt
Just because milk is white doesn't mean that clouds are made of milk.

WAS

#21
Quote from: Matt on May 09, 2018, 04:54:06 PM
The fractals are 3D textures. The background sphere is a 2D surface. The appearance of the background depends where the 2D surface intersects (slices through) the 3D texture. If you translate the 3D texture only, or you translate the 2D surface only, you change the appearance of the slice because it's a different part of the 3D texture.

Now, because this is a sphere that's centred on (0,0,0), you should be able to move the galaxy around simply by rotating the texture around the same point (0,0,0). This will work because all points on the sphere are the same distance from that point, so the slice through the texture is the same.

In Terragen you should be able to do this by adding a Transform Input shader at the very end of the shader network. Even if you have lots of other translations going on, if the rotation is the very last thing at the end of the network then it should work. But you can only use rotation, not translation. If you use translation in the very last transform, then you'll need to move the sphere by the same amount. Especially when you forget one or two in the network and wonder what's going on haha

Matt

Hmm, this is informative. I do believe I did try simple rotation but it wasn't working, I'll have to attempt again. It's a lot less intuitive as you need to sort of guess the rotation to get your desired spot. But yeah, I rotated, on 90 degrees on every axis and was not able to see the galaxy while looking at a 90 degree face relative to XYZ and 0,0,0 of the base planet. 

Thinking of of SSS's today, I was thinking it would be pretty darn handy to have a anchor for them. Simply assign a master SSS and all other follow it's position. Would save so much time with tons of masks that relate to the same center.

WAS

#22
Here is an example. This is the same rotation as the camera, which I am assuming would also be the same rotation on the sphere from position 0,0,0. Or at least relative.

If I use the translation setting you see there, with a rotation on the X axis of 90 degrees, the galaxy will be centered in frame.

Edit: Huh, I rotated 90 degrees on X without translation, and there is the Galaxy, what ya know. Going to compare the look between the construction camera. Would be cool if there was a convert function to rosterize noises or something for instances like this. 

Matt

Quote from: WASasquatch on May 09, 2018, 05:13:50 PM
Quote from: Matt on May 09, 2018, 04:54:06 PM
If you use translation in the very last transform, then you'll need to move the sphere by the same amount. Especially when you forget one or two in the network and wonder what's going on haha

Matt

I'm pretty sure I never wrote the part in italic... ;) But it's fine to have translations in the network as long as your rotation is at the end.

Matt
Just because milk is white doesn't mean that clouds are made of milk.

Matt

Quote from: WASasquatch on May 09, 2018, 05:25:12 PM
Edit: Huh, I rotated 90 degrees on X without translation, and there is the Galaxy, what ya know. Going to compare the look between the construction camera. Would be cool if there was a convert function to rosterize noises or something for instances like this.

Yeah. As I said, using rotation in the very last transform only works if you don't have any translation in that last transform. You can have as many translates as you like, but they have to come early in the network. The very last transform must be rotation only. Within a single transform shader, rotation occurs before translation, so if there is any translation in there then the rotation is no longer the last thing to happen.

Matt
Just because milk is white doesn't mean that clouds are made of milk.


WAS

#26
Weird thing though, what about instances like this? This is my Aurora fractals, and the SSS and Fractals won't rotate no matter settings. I can rotate the SSS manually via it's rotation, but I cannot rotate the cloud fractal at all.  Shape mask is just a long SSS, and the Fractal is just stretched on the Z axis for "bands".

Edit: Ehh, forgot to rotate on Z.