Author Topic: Rock bottom yet again  (Read 836 times)

Offline N-drju

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Rock bottom yet again
« on: August 28, 2018, 07:55:20 AM »
I read some articles this morning and apparently another Bitcoin crash happened. I remember a discussion we once had about how prudent would it be to convert all fiat money from one's account and how it is the only thing a right-thinking person should do to preserve their wealth.

This "wealth" is now down back again to 40% of its pre-crash value. I'd love to hear crypto-enthusiasts wage in on this. ::)
"When dictatorship is a fact, revolution becomes a right."

Offline WASasquatch

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Re: Rock bottom yet again
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2018, 04:05:45 PM »
I read some articles this morning and apparently another Bitcoin crash happened. I remember a discussion we once had about how prudent would it be to convert all fiat money from one's account and how it is the only thing a right-thinking person should do to preserve their wealth.

This "wealth" is now down back again to 40% of its pre-crash value. I'd love to hear crypto-enthusiasts wage in on this. ::)


Just going to add one thing that was iterated a lot back when "Bitcoin" originally  first started. It is a gimmick trade. It's prone to just far to many variables to be reliable. This is why people jump on new trades, and cash out as soon as possible, as they fold. I tried to help my living situation be mining with my RX480, and I accumulated near 700USB, with a minimum of 1000USD to cash out. The whole system folded and they ran with everyones money. No one knows who they are, or where they went. I made them a nice 700. This recently happened to a friend with a lot more money that he had been sitting on and never cashed out.
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Offline N-drju

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Re: Rock bottom yet again
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2018, 09:47:10 AM »
To come back to this topic briefly - here's a brand new message to the wall of tears:

https://www.ccn.com/exposed-bitcoin-scam-used-new-zealands-prime-minister-as-an-endorsement/

I read numerous leaflets coming from banks, regarding financial options like long-term investments, deposits etc. It is impossible (in my country at least) to find a financial product commercials by respected financial institutions and banks that feature politicians, actors or artists as the ones endorsing them. In fact, even murky and unknown businesses don't do it!

If someone is trying to lure new clients and crypto-miners with ads that have famous faces and fake stats on them, something is definitely rotten. Today's special at a restaurant was found to be a big, fat lie... ::)

Interestingly enough, notice that an article that follows is about Manny Pacquiao launching a new cryptocurrency of his... Fake? True?
"When dictatorship is a fact, revolution becomes a right."

Offline Rich2

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Re: Rock bottom yet again
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2018, 06:53:46 PM »
The concept of creating and using money that really isn't money sounds to me to be only one thing: CRIMINAL.
I'm going off the rails on this crazy train!

Offline PabloMack

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Re: Rock bottom yet again
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2018, 04:03:31 PM »
Stocks represent companies that actually do something. Investments like BitCoin were designed from the beginning to help insiders make money at the expense of everyone else.

Offline WASasquatch

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Re: Rock bottom yet again
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2018, 09:05:10 PM »
If you were there from the beginning you likely have no problems. One of my "I guess" friends went all in when they were 100, and again when they had some sort of deal for less than 100, he claims he has made over 100,000 % return, and by the way, he lives on Bitcoin.

Never seen how much he has but buying cars, computers, houses, etc, it proof of concept alone.
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Offline PabloMack

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Re: Rock bottom yet again
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2018, 12:25:39 AM »
Sounds like a Ponzi scheme.

Offline WASasquatch

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Re: Rock bottom yet again
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2018, 03:38:11 AM »
Sounds like a Ponzi scheme.

Isn't that how stocks go though? Kinda the name of the game with investment opportunity.
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Offline PabloMack

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Re: Rock bottom yet again
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2018, 08:39:04 PM »
Isn't that how stocks go though? Kinda the name of the game with investment opportunity.

Normal stocks are with companies that make cars, food, ship products etc. Seems to me that bitcoin is really more like a casino company. Enough people make money that it convinces others to put some of their money in when the odds are stacked against them. The only purpose of the company is to facilitate money changing hands. And in this case "funny money". Sounds like early comers make money off the losses of newcomers. I wouldn't try to talk myself into putting my money into that pot. (as in "potty", you know, the kind that has a flush handle on it)

Offline WASasquatch

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Re: Rock bottom yet again
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2018, 03:12:43 AM »
Isn't that how stocks go though? Kinda the name of the game with investment opportunity.

Normal stocks are with companies that make cars, food, ship products etc. Seems to me that bitcoin is really more like a casino company. Enough people make money that it convinces others to put some of their money in when the odds are stacked against them. The only purpose of the company is to facilitate money changing hands. And in this case "funny money". Sounds like early comers make money off the losses of newcomers. I wouldn't try to talk myself into putting my money into that pot. (as in "potty", you know, the kind that has a flush handle on it)

Ehh, stocks are a bit more complicated, and so is Bitcoin, which is far from funny money. What you sum the stocks up, is more import and export trade. Stocks can have interest on these imports and exports but it's in no way an exclusive use. For example, look at business stocks with no physical goods. No offense, but it seems you are swayed by corporate mongers that wish you to use centralized banking systems. And of course those that failed, cause you can fail literally overnight, and people have lost all their assets. And these same people exist and have existed over stock exchange and time shares and the lot with the same arguments. You could say banks are "funny money" as there is no money but when you allocate it. You don't have physical money sitting in a "bank account" unless you pay monthly/annually on a vault/lock box in a bank. People like to take for example, failing or scammed markets and use them as a blanket for the whole of Bitcoin.

It's just a really unknown field in it's infancy. It's true place hasn't been really established over it's initial idea, which with stabilizing economies, isn't a main focus.

Take a look at this article answered by a few people: https://www.quora.com/Is-Bitcoin-real-or-fake
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Offline PabloMack

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Re: Rock bottom yet again
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2018, 10:09:00 PM »
"Surging prices have pushed Bitcoin's market cap to more than $71 billion, while the value of all crytocurrencies, including Bitcoin, Etherium, Litecoin, and others, is $155 billion, according to CoinMarketCap.com - and growing each day. The potential tax windfall for the IRS is huge, and the agency is now aggressively taking steps to track and crack down on Bitcoin tax cheaters."

I see the abuses eventually forcing the federal government to take it over and the IRS to put their tap into the money streams so that their computers directly compute your income taxes and collect it so that you never see it then we'll all be screwed.

Offline WASasquatch

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Re: Rock bottom yet again
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2018, 10:33:59 PM »
"Surging prices have pushed Bitcoin's market cap to more than $71 billion, while the value of all crytocurrencies, including Bitcoin, Etherium, Litecoin, and others, is $155 billion, according to CoinMarketCap.com - and growing each day. The potential tax windfall for the IRS is huge, and the agency is now aggressively taking steps to track and crack down on Bitcoin tax cheaters."

I see the abuses eventually forcing the federal government to take it over and the IRS to put their tap into the money streams so that their computers directly compute your income taxes and collect it so that you never see it then we'll all be screwed.

It's open source, the federal government couldn't do any such thing. They could create their own and ban Bitcoin. But as it's entire original purpose, it's decentralized cryptocurrency with no domestic source. I've seen talks about banning it altogether under the basis of untracked currency. For example, someone could buy some ridiculous amount, lets say 500 billion USD. That's 500 Billion USD that has now vanished from the US market. It's not held accountable in off-shore accounts. It can be claimed in any currency without conversion rates by the States. As they cannot go by exchange rate + fees. Where as Bitcoin has a separate Conversion Rate without 3rd party fees which often go on to support their government protections (if not government affiliated in the country this is taking place in). This very behavior with bitcoin has been compared to criminals exchanging briefcases of unaccounted for currency. Lol

Some of these same concerns lead to Paypal breaking to US law and pressure, as back in the day you could accept tens of thousands without any actual identifying information.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2018, 10:42:32 PM by WASasquatch »
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Offline N-drju

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Re: Rock bottom yet again
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2018, 08:15:22 AM »
I think we are on the same side of matters with @PabloMack who says that "Stocks represent companies that actually do something". Produce something that is tangible, or offer services that you can really experience and see them change your organization or yourself. Something like this does have a value, because it is a tangible effort or product.

I am not an expert in IT or cryptocurrency by no means. Maybe this is the main reason, but I don't understand at all how can you make "money" through "validating transactions" with your processing power...? That's completely ridiculous, otherworldly concept...

A simple question - do bank clerks or post-office workers receive money per each time you send or draw cash from your bank account? ::) If I go to buy some groceries and pay by cash, I don't need anybody to "validate" the fact that I received my veggies or that a farmer obtained my money for his produce. Why would we need any other person as a witness to a transaction like this? I am convinced that the whole idea of "validating" transactions is just an excuse to earn money from something that is entirely redundant.

What also puzzles me, is how first cryptocoins were created if they can be made solely through the proof-of-work scheme? In order to create more bitcoins, you need to make transactions using them, or any other cryptocurrency for that matter. How were the first bitcoins created if there were no transactions in the first place that could have been conducted with them?

Obviously, cryptocurrencies could not have just been "bought into existence", because... well... they did not exist pre-2009. I really wonder how on Earth could Nakamoto (if he is a real person that is...) "mine" the first chainblock... from where? By what process? He could as well just write it and nobody would tell...

Of course, the crypto-enthusiasts would scoff at us, saying that we are just ignorant dimwits who cannot comprehend the complex and clever processes behind the cryptoeconomy. Yet, I prefer to use the Occam's Razor principle - apply most effortless and simplest explanation to a question or research - that cryptocurrencies are a lie.
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Offline Rich2

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Re: Rock bottom yet again
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2018, 09:47:26 PM »
QUOTE / N-drju: "Yet, I prefer to use the Occam's Razor principle - apply most effortless and simplest explanation to a question or research - that cryptocurrencies are a lie."

I have to wholeheartedly agree.  If one of my banks of which I am a customer made a bad investment decision and my real wealth was compromised, here in the US the FDIC would have it covered and I'd lose nothing.  Out there in cyberspace, there is no control.  Whoever controls bitcoin can simply close shop, and you are out on your proverbial ass in the street.  It is shady at best, and I really cannot understand why it is legal.
I'm going off the rails on this crazy train!

Offline N-drju

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Re: Rock bottom yet again
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2018, 07:50:57 AM »
A late reply, @Rich2 but yes, you are right - most of the countries around the world have something like a "bank guarantee fund" (or whatever it is called in some country or other) which is used as an emergency resource in case of a scenario like you describe.

You may not get a full reimbursement right away, but let's face it - it's better to own 10% of a bread than 100% of a rat...

None of the cryptocurrencies have the same failsafe mechanism. You get a liberty to mine and find whatever virtual money you want but it comes at a tremendous cost once you realize you have literally nobody to lend you a helping hand in case something goes wrong.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 07:57:13 AM by N-drju »
"When dictatorship is a fact, revolution becomes a right."