Cloud v2 vs. v3 control and Easy Cloud masking

Started by N-drju, September 03, 2019, 06:47:32 am

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N-drju

Quote from: Oshyan on September 02, 2019, 02:06:35 pmv3 clouds have the same control over altitude, thickness, etc. ;) They are, however, restricted to being "localized"
Yeah, well, this is pain for me - v3 clouds are neat, but default localizing feature usually puts me off of them.

I love to sculpt my clouds. Set fixed coordinates for each of them (time-consuming, but gives me a lot of joy), warp them, carve them out from a global cloud blanket. It's like scooping an ice-cream bowl. :)

If there was a possibility to have a global v3 cloud layers, I would just jump right to it. I don't understand why there is no such option.
"This year - a factory of semiconductors. Next year - a factory of whole conductors!"

Oshyan

Quote from: N-drju on September 03, 2019, 06:47:32 amIf there was a possibility to have a global v3 cloud layers, I would just jump right to it. I don't understand why there is no such option.
It's because they have to generate a memory-intensive voxel cache in order to provide the higher quality, more realistic volumetric shading. I think it's partly due to simply not having good support for fully spherical voxel structures. But also for a global cloud layer the voxel cache would either have to be relatively low resolution (relative to the absolute size of the cloud) - which could affect detail - or the cache would have to be even bigger, which would consume tons of memory. 


That being said you *can* make the localized radius *very* large. So I don't actually understand the workflow you use with v2 clouds that would not work with v3. Nothing about v3 not being "global" should affect "sculpting", warping, fixed coordinates, etc., as far as I understand.

- Oshyan

N-drju

September 03, 2019, 03:04:21 pm #2 Last Edit: September 03, 2019, 03:21:23 pm by N-drju Reason: Misleading information
Quote from: Oshyan on September 03, 2019, 01:58:50 pmSo I don't actually understand the workflow you use with v2 clouds that would not work with v3. Nothing about v3 not being "global" should affect "sculpting", warping, fixed coordinates, etc., as far as I understand.

- Oshyan

Well, it is quite obvious. It is impossible to additionally mask a v3 cloud with, well, pretty much anything... It says it is a BETA feature. It doesn't work at all tough.

You have made some really nice and useful cloud type presets, but for me most of them are useless without a possibility to mask them. Out of either a global or localized coverage. :(

I also find it limiting that I can't change the noise of the presets. Only seeds. Even if slightly, I would still like to be able to.
____________________________

EDIT: Ummm... that was actually me. Now you see how I never work with localized clouds. :P

The issue was with me having a far-away mask with "move textures with coordinates" option ticked, so the layer was barely noticeable and I couldn't handle or even find it!

So I'm sorry. No offense?

The latter point is valid, though. ;)
"This year - a factory of semiconductors. Next year - a factory of whole conductors!"

Oshyan

The "Easy Cloud" presets are meant to specifically reproduce particular real-world cloud types. That's why you can't change the noise functions. They are not the only available version of v3 clouds, however. The "Generic" presets are also v3 clouds and work basically just like v2 clouds, with all the same levels of flexibility, aside from simply having to be Localized.

As for masking Easy Clouds, it does work, as you've apparently now realized. :D

- Oshyan

N-drju

Quote from: Oshyan on September 03, 2019, 03:49:48 pmThe "Easy Cloud" presets are meant to specifically reproduce particular real-world cloud types. That's why you can't change the noise functions.

Okay, understood. But on the other hand, a size control (not to be confused with seed control) could at least be added. This way, one could use e.g. default cirrocumulus and then add another cirrocu layer with larger cloud sizes.
"This year - a factory of semiconductors. Next year - a factory of whole conductors!"

Matt

In the Easy Cloud, feature size is controlled by the "depth" parameter. Does that have the effect you want?
Just because milk is white doesn't mean that clouds are made of milk.

N-drju

Quote from: Matt on September 04, 2019, 11:29:22 amIn the Easy Cloud, feature size is controlled by the "depth" parameter. Does that have the effect you want?

No. The depth controls only the thickness of the entire cloud level. What I wish for, is a way to control the size of, let's call it, "cloud cells". Much like you would control the size of a power fractal through lead-in and feature scale.
"This year - a factory of semiconductors. Next year - a factory of whole conductors!"

Matt

It does more than that. In the Easy Cloud, the depth also changes the size of these "cells". There is a strong relationship between the largest feature size and the depth of the cloud in order to make realistic looking shapes, especially for the cumulus types. You can also change the "cloud type" to change this relationship. The Stratocumulus type uses a larger feature size ratio than the other types, so it produces flatter clouds. But, yeah, there are some limitations because of this. If you need to precisely control the depth and feature size independently then you need to use Cloud Layer V3 with your own fractals.
Just because milk is white doesn't mean that clouds are made of milk.

N-drju

Quote from: Matt on September 04, 2019, 04:56:47 pmIn the Easy Cloud, the depth also changes the size of these "cells".
Oh... Well, I didn't know it. I'm too reliant on power fractals it seems. 8)
"This year - a factory of semiconductors. Next year - a factory of whole conductors!"