Discontented User

Started by PabloMack, January 16, 2020, 12:54:07 PM

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Dune

;D  I liked your post, Hannes.

Hannes


pokoy

I personally am really happy with TG, and it helps me to produce some stuff that I can't get elsewhere. As some said, the volumetric rendering is really good and the atmosphere model is stunning. I have loads of images shot high up in the air and it's kind of amazing to see how well TG reproduces most of the things i'm after, totally love it.

If the procedural approach is down your alley, TG will shine. However, and that's where some decide to part ways, if you think 3d apps are about a viewport and moving things with control over every vertex it's time to either dig deeper into TG or say goodbye.

We got an amazing path tracer update. I think it's time to tackle the accessibility aspect now, be it in the way of consolidating nodes and shaders to be more intuitive, or taking care of a better 3d preview (it's outdated, many years have passed and you CAN get realtime displacement that would be enough for a preview), or making sure we get better tools for designing like a better scatter.
In general, things need to become more intuitive, currently TG's approach is blocking users from direct manipulation without touching noises, nodes and math. Think 'I want a mountain here, a lake there and I need to have the cloud look exactly like this, this area is grass, this is all rock, the hero tree is here, the rest of the trees follows a line down in the valley.' In most 3d apps you'd create these and place them exactly where you need them to be. In TG, you kind of have to think backwards and may end up with node spaghetti that you won't understand a few weeks later, plus many things are based on random noises that may or may not give out what you want. And you don't see anything without waiting for the preview to tessellate first, and then the camera navigation isn't too easy. It IS a very different approach, and anyone expecting TG to behave like other apps may end up being frustrated enough to give up.

Still, Matt and the team have my deepest respect for doing this and making sure TG users get new things to play with.

Tangled-Universe

Exactly this Pokoy! + what KyL said.

The tech related discussion kind of camouflages/disguises the bigger issue, but why investigate in your own techincal and artistic shortcomings if you can blame someone else.
Also, it was insinuated that having a good relationship with Planetside makes a difference, but it is irrelevant.
I'm 100% with Pokoy and KyL on what's lacking and I have been very vocal about it and despite of having a good relationship with Planetside it did not make a difference.
Which is good I think, because otherwise people start saying nonsense like just happened.
It's ill-founded instigating insinuation and my 6000+ posts prove this.

Dune


Tangled-Universe

Yeah sorry, I had to let that get off my chest.

WAS

#36
People seem very confused between change and improvement. Lmao Being happy or content is fine, but is subjective, it's also no excuse really to not improvement or act like everythings fine now, just relax. If you're content, then you are content. What's added shouldn't interfere with you. Lol To willfully inhibit a failing product, however, is really just negligent, especially considering Terragen's position, and maintaining the software is fine and doesn't need improvement (which seems to be the general conveyance and arguments).

There is a lot that Terragen simply doesn't have that it needs, or could very much help with peoples workflow, and heck, may even make your contentment more content. Lol And continuing to come back to talk about how you're fine doesn't help with Terragen's images. Your usernames are very versed in the forums, and bias to any subjective outside perspective, which... is how you make sales... A lot of peoples attitudes here creating a air of contment has really held Terragen back in reality, and many Terragen users have left for lack of improvement. In fact, the majority of them! We are literally grains compared to the user-base, and past galleries on renderosity, deviantart, shadowness, etc. A hollowed reflection of an optimistic and excited past.

You guys are the strongest driving force in Matt's life, and you are fine with how the software is failing, and that's not good encouragement for Matt and inevitably his career lifeline. We should be encouraging change, obviously not harassing him, but encouraging the development and advancement of the software to help it succeed. As it is you are all always fine, out of friendship, respect, and your personal workflows developed for years, and from the help of those for years / the beginning. Which means you're the most powerful driving force behind Matt's effort. Don't abuse it and hurt the potential, whether unkowingly or not.

You should also always be open to peoples ideas, or concerns, and not shut them down with "I'm fine" like you're an authority in the software, further making the community and software inhospitable to change and concern. Too often are topics shown down with "I like it the way it is" (when it often doesn't entail changing their workflor) or some other encouraging sentiment that does no help to TG, the community, or new users concerns. 

WAS

#37
To summarize. Stop (in good faith) inhibiting Planetside as a business, commercial product, and stop inhibiting Matt as a developer and spearhead of it all. You gotta understand your power in his drive, compared to the actual goals of Planetside as a business and Terragen as a commercial product. Terragen is not your personal tool, it should not be Matt's personal tool. It's a product. And needs to adhere to feedback, or it will continue to drag its ass. Currently Terragn and it's Community has a area of notoriety, and it needs to be addressed. And a big part of that is its direction, outside of scope of consumers needs, which inherently keep sales extremely low. 

Dune

:o  We won't stop or inhibit you any longer, Matt! Please continue working on TG.

Tangled-Universe

#39
Edit: this is so tiring...never mind...

WAS

#40
Good job. Continue to instigate the exact problem.

Should really take a step back and look at Terragen and how you guys are it's biggest problem. Your held aside. You don't want it to succeed. That's clear. Which is ironic considering your respect for Matt's efforts.

Terragen IS failing. Planetside IS failing. Over 10 years of nothing really. And besides what YOU want (from past topics) you're content. Lmao

Kadri

Guys all who are here around want the best for Terragen. No need to take it to extremes.
Jordan your writing is a little on the sharp side :) but i know you and that you want the best for Terragen.

Have a look at this post from Matt from 2014:
https://planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,18285.msg177343.html#msg177343

Now Oshyan is leaving too.
No need for pessimism but there could be much more.

Hetzen

Quote from: WAS on January 23, 2020, 01:53:03 PMGood job. Continue to instigate the exact problem.

Should really take a step back and look at Terragen and how you guys are it's biggest problem. Your held aside. You don't want it to succeed. That's clear. Which is ironic considering your respect for Matt's efforts.

Terragen IS failing. Planetside IS failing. Over 10 years of nothing really. And besides what YOU want (from past topics) you're content. Lmao

And yet you moaning on every other thread is helping how? I don't understand why you spend so much energy here?

WAS

Ignorance is Bliss;

If you don't know, or aware, have the competency to understand, you simply don't worry.

It's easy to see why it wouldn't matter to so many when it's not their fields, and are content anyhow.

---

If you think it's "moaning" that's fine. But let's not pretend they aren't doing the same, and moaning about change anytime any suggestion topic is made or this same-type topic is made every year for the past decade. Thinking it's going to ruin their workflows or the software, how selfish.

Being content means you aren't helping anything. You're fine sitting on the sinking ship without even raising a hand for its benefit for being fine with their own personal workflows, representing so few it's not an argument compared to the industries.


Hetzen

All I see is a talented artist blaming his tools. There are different brushes out there.