Spirit

[rcallicotte]

Jo,

I for one like the idea of having object rendering capabilities in TG2 and it seems to do okay (for 16 textures) now...I hope there are still plans to have the unlimited textures on an object. 

This work by Lucio is cool, but I can assure you I don't have his resources (time and software) to do stuff like this and yet would think TG2 could do quite a bit if the object rendering was better.  Let's face it - there isn't much desire in the business world with just scenery and no objects.  This would tend to make TG2 rather useless, in my opinion.

I'm sorry to sound so terse.  I just can't imagine learning how to use something that has no goal other than to make a picture.  Rather inartistic, on one hand.  On the other hand, I have only a couple of more decades to go and I'm not sure I want to spend time doing something that someone sees for one second and says, "Cool."  Sort of sad.  Sorry if it depresses anyone.

[green_meklar]

Here's an alternative version with different color range and shadows a bit improved.

I like the other one better. The lighting in it looks more like the photographs actually taken by the rovers. I think it's important to make sure the scene, and most especially the atmosphere, isn't too bright because Mars receives less sunlight than the Earth.

[Tangled-Universe]

Here's an alternative version with different color range and shadows a bit improved.

I like the other one better. The lighting in it looks more like the photographs actually taken by the rovers. I think it's important to make sure the scene, and most especially the atmosphere, isn't too bright because Mars receives less sunlight than the Earth.

Yes I agree with this. I prefer the first version as well.

Jo,

I for one like the idea of having object rendering capabilities in TG2 and it seems to do okay (for 16 textures) now...I hope there are still plans to have the unlimited textures on an object. 

This work by Lucio is cool, but I can assure you I don't have his resources (time and software) to do stuff like this and yet would think TG2 could do quite a bit if the object rendering was better.  Let's face it - there isn't much desire in the business world with just scenery and no objects.  This would tend to make TG2 rather useless, in my opinion.

I'm sorry to sound so terse.  I just can't imagine learning how to use something that has no goal other than to make a picture.  Rather inartistic, on one hand.  On the other hand, I have only a couple of more decades to go and I'm not sure I want to spend time doing something that someone sees for one second and says, "Cool."  Sort of sad.  Sorry if it depresses anyone.

No, I don't agree. You should see TG2 as a tool, rather than a stand-alone modeler, texturer (eventually perhaps) and renderer. I think TG2 is meant to make enviroments suitable for integration in other production-pipelines or meant for artistic goals ("to make a picture" yes )
I certainly think there's a great desire for scenery-generators as TG2. The movie "Stealth" for example or the whole Pirates of the Caribean trilogy (which was actually created with VUE, but we're talking about scenery generation in general). As far as I know Mojoworld has also been used in some epic movies like Day After Tomorrow, but I can be mistaken.

In conclusion I think you don't have the right picture regarding the usefulness of TG2 in "the business world".
Matt worked at Digital Domain and I think he'd never began developing TG if there wasn't any interest/future for it.

Regards, Martin

[rcallicotte]

TangledUniverse - I'm not sure, really.  I could see SDKs using TG2 in movies, etc.  This means the code behind what we're using; not the product itself.  But as far as what I'm learning (most of it is here), I'd say without the ability to utilize some matter of believable object control, TG2 by itself cannot produce much more than some game backgrounds...as far as business is concerned.  I have the animation version, but I'm not sure what I'll do with it actually.

I'd be glad for someone to prove me wrong.  Not interested in tit-for-tat debates, though. 

All I've seen in movies has more to do with SDKs behind the scenes with products such as Vue.

[Tangled-Universe]

Same accounts for Max and Maya. All big studio's write their own pieces of code for it to suit their demands. It isn't any different from what they'll do with TG2.
But ok, I rest my case now, because it's Lucio's topic and not ours 

[rcallicotte]

...and nice work, too, I might add.  Good job, Lucio.   

[Lucio]

Oh no, please continue you all!
I think this is a pretty interesting debate, and I have to agree mostly with Tangled-Universe. TG2 has a cool range of possible uses and destinations, and his integration into larger pipelines increases them even more, that's natural. His native object import utilities can be improved and maybe powered a bit with further development, but are already pretty good and well balanced with the other aspects of the software; we can't forget that the main goal is to produce a good environment-scenery generator, and I think this is a widely achieved target.

Thanks again for the comments

Lucio

[Cyber-Angel]

@Tangled Universe

It is true that the Pirates of the Caribbean trilogy was created created with VUE, however the digital terrain in Stealth was created with the same software they used on Flags of Our Fathers which is called EnGen which is used at Digital Domain and form what I understand is based on the same base code as TG2, but it was taken in a direction that Digital Domain needed to take it for their own use.

Regards to you.

Cyber-Angel     

[Will]

yea I pretty sure thats right, at least from what I read in an 3DWorld article.

[Cyber-Angel]

yea I pretty sure thats right, at least from what I read in an 3DWorld article.

Then you and I read the same publication then (Sorry to go off topic)

Regards to you.

Cyber-Angel

[Sethren]

The terrains and flora created in Vue were probably exported to a third party renderer and detailed digital matte paint composting was probably added to further enhance the illusion of a live action/3d mixed scene. If Vue looked that good by itself i would have abandoned Terragen.   

[rcallicotte]

 

The terrains and flora created in Vue were probably exported to a third party renderer and detailed digital matte paint composting was probably added to further enhance the illusion of a live action/3d mixed scene. If Vue looked that good by itself i would have abandoned Terragen.   

[Tangled-Universe]

@Tangled Universe

It is true that the Pirates of the Caribbean trilogy was created created with VUE, however the digital terrain in Stealth was created with the same software they used on Flags of Our Fathers which is called EnGen which is used at Digital Domain and form what I understand is based on the same base code as TG2, but it was taken in a direction that Digital Domain needed to take it for their own use.

Regards to you.

Cyber-Angel     

Yes that's correct. Matt was allowed to take some of the EnGen code with him to develop Terragen. I think one of Matt's purposes is to make the technology available and understandable for the majority of people. EnGen can be seen as the further developed and way less userfriendlier version of TG.
The main point is Calico's hypothesis that Terragen isn't interesting for the CG industry which I think, and already explained, isn't correct.

The terrains and flora created in Vue were probably exported to a third party renderer and detailed digital matte paint composting was probably added to further enhance the illusion of a live action/3d mixed scene. If Vue looked that good by itself i would have abandoned Terragen.   

Here's a brief description of the production pipeline of Pirates of the Caribbean using Vue.
As you can read all the scenes are rendered within Vue, except for a few scenes (due to flickering apparently).
It's possible/assumable that E-on assisted ILM in this production by providing additional code for example.
And yes, digital matte painting is also involved, but when isn't it??? In every production, using Max, Maya, whatever...matte painting and/or 2D-projections are involved. Just for the sake of time/costs. These techniques are mainly used in mid- or background parts of the scenes.

http://www.e-onsoftware.com/showcase/spotlights/?page=1

What I meant to say, again, is that TG as well as Vue are interesting enough for the industry. I think TG has to develop further (and will I hope) to take Vue's place in future productions.
One software package to serve all the industry's needs isn't just possible

[rcallicotte]

Hey, don't misquote me.  I said something about the SDK in TG2 being useful for movies.

As software progresses, there will be less need for 52 packages to do one thing.  I see TG2 as a step in that direction and, while I hoped to see it be more robust in the areas of object handling, I love it and will continue to learn as much as I can from it.  Disappointment isn't the equivalent of throwing the baby out with the bath water.  Ya' dig?   

Great example: zBrush.  This program does what many others in combination could only do years ago.  This means the artist is becoming more important to what has been the dweeb's world in graphic arts.  I welcome this with open arms.  I hope you understand.

The main point is Calico's hypothesis that Terragen isn't interesting for the CG industry which I think, and already explained, isn't correct.

One software package to serve all the industry's needs isn't just possible

[Sethren]

Interesting that they rendered it all in Vue but no doubt they used textures from photos due to Vues procedurals lacking that realism. I would also imagine that the techniques used in mid or background scenes might be because in Vue nothing really looks to good up close. I tried myself but procedurals look soft and vegitation looks odd with the way Vue handles it's leaf distribution. Matte painting really adds the icing to everything but it's hard work, i looked at some tutorials on these techniques and said no way.

I hear you Calico, SDK for Plug-Ins, lots of Plug-Ins.