export and render imported object (to speed up rendering)

Started by Dune, April 01, 2021, 05:20:32 am

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Kadri

Quote from: WAS on April 02, 2021, 01:48:46 pm...
And actually subdividing lower MPD objs just smooths polygon edges.
...
This not so easy as it looks as the terminology can be confusing in different software and even in a software itself.
Thus the reason i asked in which software you did this.

WAS

On the fly? No. They really don't unless you want bad performance.

Subdivision is done with whatever I do it with. Poseray, mesh lab, or blender, and the results with them don't seem any different unless doing more iterations then just 1. For that terrain it was all done in blender. 

And what you aren't getting is perspective models are just non-standard.... Anywhere. What TG is doing is irrelevant... That's TGs full render and the assets are unobtainable. But for games, and most other software and comping, tiles are the most common. Even when using heightmaps, they are tiles.

Kadri


"What TG is doing is irrelevant."

What???

We are talking about exporting from TERRAGEN and bringing it back into TERRAGEN.
Every time i say something and make an example etc. you say that it is irrelevant or this and that.
Only what you say is relevant? ? ? ? ?

I said numerous times that if you don't plan accordingly your moves are limited with this method.
Sound this like it is OK for gaming? Did i in one place said that this is ok for gaming? NO!

I said the same that you have to use something like tiling here and in Facebook.
I don't know why and in which engine you want to use that but actually heighfields (and of course in tiles) are better for big landscapes for game engines like Unreal.

Still no scene example from you by the way. Keep nitpicking i have enough.

WAS

Quote from: Kadri"What TG is doing is irrelevant."
Quote from: KadriDo you know why? Because in games they do this on the fly (depends on the game) like Terragen does it

Games aren't generating terrain on the fly. They're baking out low poly objects, LODs, etc, or baking heightmaps to objects. Man, generating terrain on load or roam? That would be disasterous, as seen with sandbox games and their stability/performance. Games with dynamic terrain are terribly simplified.

I think too much is lost in translation for coherent conversation, is really the issue. Constant loops.

Kadri

Quote from: WAS on April 02, 2021, 06:42:29 pm
Quote from: Kadri"What TG is doing is irrelevant."
Quote from: KadriDo you know why? Because in games they do this on the fly (depends on the game) like Terragen does it

Games aren't generating terrain on the fly. They're baking out low poly objects, LODs, etc, or baking heightmaps to objects. Man, generating terrain on load or roam? That would be disasterous, as seen with sandbox games and their stability/performance. Games with dynamic terrain are terribly simplified.

I think too much is lost in translation for coherent conversation, is really the issue. Constant loops.

Probably. As i was more talking about Terragen then games (in general only Terragen actually).
The part where games are morphing the LODs together in different ways was more what i was trying to say with "on the fly".
There are dynamic ways for this using it only where you need it then loading the full LOD etc.
Fully as Terragen is probably out of reach for some time at least.

WAS

Terragen works pretty well for OBJ terrains and  heightmaps. It's textures that are the issue. For example, can't export lateral textures vs normal when you're doing an ortho.

And old games did use a type of LOD for card-based projections of stuff, but that's pretty antiquated and rarer to see. But usually LOD is just level of detail, swapping objects for higher detail based on Z. And that's just a matter of loading the asset, fading out the current one, fading in the new, and unloading the other (if it's a sparse object, if it's recurring best to keep it loaded so it can swap in and out).

WAS

This is where better geometry would be nice though, as simplifying TG geometry is probably impossible. The geometry is all over the place and there is no uniform polygon mapping, so I don't think it would work well good. I tried MeshLab and it just disintegrated, even with a low threshold.

If it was a better optimized mesh, you could target just closeup quality, and simplify for LODs. But currently you'd need to render LODs based on MPD.

Kadri

Quote from: WAS on April 02, 2021, 07:19:14 pmTerragen works pretty well for OBJ terrains and  heightmaps. It's textures that are the issue. For example, can't export lateral textures vs normal when you're doing an ortho.

And old games did use a type of LOD for card-based projections of stuff, but that's pretty antiquated and rarer to see. But usually LOD is just level of detail, swapping objects for higher detail based on Z. And that's just a matter of loading the asset, fading out the current one, fading in the new, and unloading the other (if it's a sparse object, if it's recurring best to keep it loaded so it can swap in and out).

Yes.

There is another method. Kinda similar but more what i was thinking about when i said "on the fly".
I have to search it...

Kadri

Quote from: WAS on April 02, 2021, 07:22:32 pmThis is where better geometry would be nice though, as simplifying TG geometry is probably impossible. The geometry is all over the place and there is no uniform polygon mapping, so I don't think it would work well good. I tried MeshLab and it just disintegrated, even with a low threshold.

If it was a better optimized mesh, you could target just closeup quality, and simplify for LODs. But currently you'd need to render LODs based on MPD.
Yeah the mesh is really messy. That is one of the reason i actually don't care so much for cleaning it.

Kadri

I tried a method for getting a really clean mesh. Hard to explain.
The problem was that for a big mesh it was toooo time consuming.
I tried it some years ago but i doubt that it would work now too as the files i use are much bigger too now.
But for small files it could maybe work.

I will search for a video for this too.

Kadri

Quote from: Kadri on April 02, 2021, 07:24:40 pm
Quote from: WAS on April 02, 2021, 07:19:14 pmTerragen works pretty well for OBJ terrains and  heightmaps. It's textures that are the issue. For example, can't export lateral textures vs normal when you're doing an ortho.

And old games did use a type of LOD for card-based projections of stuff, but that's pretty antiquated and rarer to see. But usually LOD is just level of detail, swapping objects for higher detail based on Z. And that's just a matter of loading the asset, fading out the current one, fading in the new, and unloading the other (if it's a sparse object, if it's recurring best to keep it loaded so it can swap in and out).

Yes.

There is another method. Kinda similar but more what i was thinking about when i said "on the fly".
I have to search it...

This "Continuous Levels of Detail (CLOD)"...
"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_of_detail_(computer_graphics)

Kadri

Quote from: Kadri on April 02, 2021, 07:29:34 pmI tried a method for getting a really clean mesh. Hard to explain.
The problem was that for a big mesh it was toooo time consuming.
I tried it some years ago but i doubt that it would work now too as the files i use are much bigger too now.
But for small files it could maybe work.

I will search for a video for this too.

This method:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwoPTl5ykiY
Go to 2:20.
But as i said not practical for high resolution terrain objects.
And overhangs might still be a problem with this even if it works.

Kadri

I tried 3DCoat 1-2 years or so ago for clean meshes but it couldn't load those big files.
Maybe it is better now. I will try.
I don't know if Zbrush is better in this way.

Dune

You're hijacking my thread 8)  I started this one anew, to hopefully keep it short and usable for users, with a minimum of 'clutter' ;)