REQUEST - Stay Open button in Render Window

Started by Stormlord, June 21, 2021, 09:14:04 AM

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raymoh

Quote from: WAS on June 28, 2021, 02:13:00 PMPut TG into windowed mode, start a render in foreground and let it finish. When it finishes it will become the background window as the 3D preview becomes active and now the GUI is priority. But when you click on the clearly visible render window under Terragen, it doesn't respond strangely
I repeat myself, although unfortunately it can not help clarify the problem:
@WAS:
Your description now shows me that it is obviously "only" a Windows problem. With macOS the "Render View" window of a finished render stays in the foreground for me (as it should?), while in the background main window the "3D Render Preview" starts working again unnecessarily. All the time Terragen is responsive and operable ("clickable") for me.
With macOS I also have the possibility to operate Terragen in "Tab-Mode". The main window and the render view window are simply two open tabs of a single window. Also in this mode I have no problems (switching by clicking).
"I consider global warming much less dangerous than global dumbing down"   (Lisa Fitz, German comedian)

Dune

This is different from my experience. If I let a render render and finish, it won't switch to the main TG, but stays on top. But I never have RTP on when doing a render and often my preview window is ready, or empty of objects/pops, box mode, or even closed, to save resources for the render, especially when doing a final render.
But perhaps when the machine is busy doing RTP stuff, render window won't respond, I can imagine that, priority and such. Probably also depends on the kind of CPU/GPU?

raymoh

As said elsewhere: It may well be an RTP/render preview problem.
Since it seems to be impossible to disable the render preview permanently, you always have to do this manually. If the render preview is still active during the rendering process (you forgot to stop it), the render preview will be stopped at the beginning of the rendering process, but will be continued after the rendering process is finished and will most likely bring the corresponding window to the foreground again...
If the render preview is stopped manually before rendering, the actual render window remains in the foreground.
"I consider global warming much less dangerous than global dumbing down"   (Lisa Fitz, German comedian)

KlausK

What WAS is describing is not normal TG behaviour on Windows.


Quote from: raymoh on June 29, 2021, 04:57:37 AMSince it seems to be impossible to disable the render preview permanently, you always have to do this manually.
You can - sort of - "disable the Preview Render" as follows:
go to every tab in the TG interface (Object, Terrain, Shaders...etc) and close the 3D Preview.
Once you do that, it does not come back (open up) on its own. If you need it, use F4 (Windows) on any tab or use the button at the top.
Of course, you have to close it manually again in this tab. F4 is not a on/off switch  for the preview window.
Neither is F3 for the Render View. Anyways, I always use Ctrl+R to get the the render started.

It was nice (I know I repeat myself) when you could open the 3D Preview as a floating window.
But as Matt said way back this is not possible anymore (or so) because of how the RTP works now.

On Windows any program window that has the focus comes to the foreground of the desktop.
You can program a "Always on top" behaviour into the the program (like the Task Manager has),
but that has to be implemented by the developer.
On Windows the "Render Window" cannot be docked into the TG Gui - sadly.

Windows has the "Taskbar" where you have a button for each open program window.
You simply need to click there and choose which window should come to the foreground.
Use the "Windows" key on your keyboard to see the Taskbar. Because TG hides the Taskbar when in Full Screen Mode. (Win 7 here).
That is also something the developer could prevent.

Quote from: raymoh on June 29, 2021, 04:57:37 AMIf the render preview is still active during the rendering process (you forgot to stop it), the render preview will be stopped at the beginning of the rendering process, but will be continued after the rendering process is finished and will most likely bring the corresponding window to the foreground again...
No. That is not standard Windows behaviour. After a render finishes without user intervention
there is no change of focus on the open program windows.
The 3D Preview does not start where it was interrupted by starting the "Render Window".
It refreshes the scene from scratch - which really is even more grrrrr&*$%^....

Changing settings while a image is rendered in the "Render View" is prone to lead to crashes. We all know this, I think.

On the other hand: why does not everybody use at least 2 monitors...."problem"  solved ;)

CHeers, Klaus
/ ASUS WS Mainboard / Dual XEON E5-2640v3 / 64GB RAM / NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 TI / Win7 Ultimate . . . still (||-:-||)

raymoh

@KlausK:
With my votes I only tried to explain the "weird" behavior of Terragen by @Stormlord and @WAS... Since I myself, as I said, am on the road with macOS, my conclusions are probably rather guesses.

Quote from: KlausK on June 29, 2021, 08:38:43 AMOn Windows any program window that has the focus comes to the foreground of the desktop.

It is the same under macOS.

Quote from: KlausK on June 29, 2021, 08:38:43 AMWindows has the "Taskbar" where you have a button for each open program window.

You can also set the menubar under macOS to show every open program window.

Quote from: KlausK on June 29, 2021, 08:38:43 AMThe 3D Preview does not start where it was interrupted by starting the "Render Window".
It refreshes the scene from scratch - which really is even more grrrrr&*$%^....

That's exactly what I wanted to say... ;)

Quote from: KlausK on June 29, 2021, 08:38:43 AMChanging settings while a image is rendered in the "Render View" is prone to lead to crashes. We all know this, I think.

"Sigh!" Therefore: Two separate processes and this problem would be solved. Do a final render at the same time and continue working somewhere else in Terragen.
"I consider global warming much less dangerous than global dumbing down"   (Lisa Fitz, German comedian)

WAS

Quote from: raymoh on June 29, 2021, 01:03:02 AMYour description now shows me that it is obviously "only" a Windows problem.

Yeah, that is what I am on and talking about. I never said it was a mac problem.

I think the call made to WDM is locking the window on screen or something requiring it to be called back (alt tab, f3, clicking task bar)

KlausK

@raymoh 


Quote from: raymoh on June 29, 2021, 09:30:57 AMWith my votes I only tried to explain the "weird" behavior of Terragen by @Stormlord and @WAS... Since I myself, as I said, am on the road with macOS, my conclusions are probably rather guesses.
I understood that and I don`t think I was questioning that. Just talking about that it is not a strange overall windows behaviour.



Quote from: raymoh on June 29, 2021, 09:30:57 AM"Sigh!" Therefore: Two separate processes and this problem would be solved. Do a final render at the same time and continue working somewhere else in Terragen.

Sure, that would be nice for MacOS. I did not question that, did I?
As Dune said, on Win you are able to start as many instances as your machine can bear.
But a separate process like you describe would also be good for TG on Win, of course.

CHeers, Klaus
/ ASUS WS Mainboard / Dual XEON E5-2640v3 / 64GB RAM / NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 TI / Win7 Ultimate . . . still (||-:-||)

WAS

Quote from: KlausK on June 29, 2021, 05:04:09 PMBut a separate process like you describe would also be good for TG on Win, of course.
Yeah, it would really be cool if the TG renderer was just a render node sort of deal. So when you click render, it sends a snapshot of the projects current state, and renders that [in a separate process/program]. Any changes won't affect the render, and 3D preview can continue to operate. I think systems (Workstations at least) can scale their cores to do example rendering while continuing to use TG, and it's previewer.

PS this sort of snapshot functionality, and going to a new process, I think would be easier to open up avenues of improvements. Like a built-in network render manager, to communicate with other render nodes. More abilities like history of renders it's completed as part of the GUI, etc.

KlausK

@raymoh Going back to  opening to instances on Mac here? Did you try anything already? Any success? What might work is to open a render via command line with the tgdcli. At least that is a way to separate the render process from the open session under TG Windows.
There are some threads about that in the forum to find.
And the wiki documentation: https://planetside.co.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Command_Line_Reference

CHeers, Klaus
/ ASUS WS Mainboard / Dual XEON E5-2640v3 / 64GB RAM / NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 TI / Win7 Ultimate . . . still (||-:-||)

raymoh

@KlausK: Working with the command line is not at the top of my list. I am more of a "click-man". I have gotten used to working with Terragen. If it takes longer, I take a break, drink coffee or go for a walk... I rarely have crashes anymore. It has become a habit to stop the preview before rendering
Otherwise, I can only agree with the post #22 of @WAS.
"I consider global warming much less dangerous than global dumbing down"   (Lisa Fitz, German comedian)