object placement

Started by lonewolf, December 30, 2007, 12:03:19 AM

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rcallicotte

@CA - The only worries I might have are if I see Planetside promise something clearly and not deliver it as we all expected.  The two basic problems any developer faces are false expectations from end-users (whether by misunderstanding or the end-user is just not thinking clearly) and meeting the expected requirements.  Another sub-issue for a developer is scope creep that is closely associated with false expectations.  Scope creep basically represents a constant request flow for changes / new requirements, when the present schedule of requirements hasn't been met yet. 

In other words, we could request until the moon turns into blood and it won't help make a better product.  Planetside is being very gracious about the constant complaints and new requests, but the reality is that Planetside (according to the above declaration by Oshyan) is interested in a landscape software that excels.  If we as end-users can help in this process, and Planetside agrees our ideas are truly assistance, then I guess we're all happy.

@Planetside - I'm available to send you converted retail xFrog trees to make sure these are working as well as possible with TG2.  I'm working on the conversion process slowly on my own and am thinking you might want assistance.  I realize there are copyright issues, but I believe this issue is safe in your hands.  Let me know.
So this is Disney World.  Can we live here?

JimB

Make a render of your scene, paint on top of it in pure red green and blue to create an RGB mask, extract each RGB channel to make three masks for placement of populations through the camera you rendered from originally. No overlap of populations and you could be very specific about where they go.
Some bits and bobs
The Galileo Fallacy, 'Argumentum ad Galileus':
"They laughed at Galileo. They're laughing at me. Therefore I am the next Galileo."

Nope. Galileo was right for the simpler reason that he was right.

Harvey Birdman

Quote from: lonewolf on December 30, 2007, 08:08:17 PM
I'm not that disappointed Oshyan. All I want is to be able to place a single object like a house, then place a population around it and not have trees growing inside the house. Unless the house is delapidated in the forest and there should be trees growing through it. All the rest, I completely understand and agree.

Iain

Iain - this is already easy to accomplish using masks. Simply shoot an orthographic image looking straight down onto the house, then turn it into a B/W mask image. You can even blur the edges so the vegetation will fade out as it gets near the building.

It is also possible to place individual objects using masks and populations. The 'Relay Station' pic I posted a while back used that technique to place poplars along the roadside. That way you can use the 'sit on terrain' function and avoid headaches trying to get object elevation set correctly, and place the objects just where you want them. The mask was just a black bmp with white splotches where I wanted the trees; you then change the object spacing and splotch sizes till you only get one object in each splotch.

schmeerlap

Thanks, Oshyan, for taking the time to give us this comprehensive explanation of Planetside's T2 development prioroties. I am concerned with purely natural phenomena that can be found in most landscapes (plants and rocks) and don't like trees growing out of rocks when I don't intend them to. I know the avoidance of unwelcome merging of rocks and trees can be accomplished using masks, but in a complex scene I would not consider this to be "easy".
I hope I realise I don't exist before I apparently die.

Cyber-Angel

Quote from: calico on December 31, 2007, 10:07:57 AM
@CA - The only worries I might have are if I see Planetside promise something clearly and not deliver it as we all expected.  The two basic problems any developer faces are false expectations from end-users (whether by misunderstanding or the end-user is just not thinking clearly) and meeting the expected requirements.  Another sub-issue for a developer is scope creep that is closely associated with false expectations.  Scope creep basically represents a constant request flow for changes / new requirements, when the present schedule of requirements hasn't been met yet.
Quote


I would never go as far as expecting Planetside or any one else for that matter to get into is to raise expectations then only be be unable to meet them as expected January 1st 2007 is a case in point.

Your point about the end-users is received and understood and that in the end is why I do what I do its the End-Users or as they called them in TRON "The Little People "

Misunderstandings tend to happen when people don't know what to expect and when it appears to them that their voice is lost among all the rest, my personal philosophy on debate (In the classical meaning of the term) is that all opinion are important a no one opinion should be any more or less important than any other a tenant I believe that was enshrined in the forum in Rome, but there other things tended to take precedence such as social standing, family influence and wealth among factors considered in that place and I don't believe in "Times change, but people never do".

In the end then, it is market and other forces as well as end-user demand that all commercial entities must respond this is no more so in the fast moving, rapidly advancing worlds of software and technology in general and the phrase "Do or Die" comes to mind: in the end history will judge weather what is said today is right , wrong or indifference we can only do so much.

Regards to you.

Cyber-Angel  ;D               

Virex

Well, if it is possible using image masks, wouldn't it be possible to substract 2 masks (either image or fractal) and use the normal version for the placement of one population and the inverted version for the placement of the other? That way, the populations would "avoid" eachother.

DeathTwister

#21
Wow what a great responce and thank you so Much Oshyan for getting back to me and setting things strait.  Yes I had pretty much figured most of those things out, but as I look at this tgd2 interface it looks to be so very close to being able to actually be able to add more Textures.  But I think it is not Textures that are at issues as I have been working with Models in tgd2, but more it seems to only look at 16 parts of a model.  If I bring a Dragon in that has 24 parts to it, I can see the model pats in a drop down menu, but have not figured out how to get tgd2 to except what was actually imported in., I sure would like to be on the Beta team on the models aspect dearly I would, hint hint. And not so much a texture problem at all, other then mesh and texture go together.  If I make a model I can only make 16 parts for each model at a time.

  I love TGD2 and love the effect I can get as it is so much more realistic, and that is exactly why I want my models in tgd2, It is OK if I cannot animate them directly for now, just to be able to do sets would be nice for graphics.  And I understand completely all that everyone has said on this posting.  It has been most helpful.

QuoteBy definition there are many things that are either very difficult or impossible to support, such as proprietary procedural formats or other proprietary data. This is the main reason we won't be directly supporting Poser any time soon. If a Poser figure can be fully exported, with all material definitions and textures, into a standard object format such as OBJ, then TG2 should fully support accurate rendering of it in the future. The same is true for the object export from any application. We will work to support standard formats and expect other applications to do the same, in the spirit of data exchange and facilitating effective workflows.

  Yes that is OK, I have been getting Daz, poser and other .obj objects in for a while now, and my own, just need to be able to bring all the little parts that maker a great model, thus a killer scene into tgd2 is all, and I know it will happen sometime this next year, that ok, just wanted to talk about it as I consider it important as a artist and a landscape artist as well. And houses, ships, people even if they do not move in animation still many have more then 16, well most do really.  It would be nice to see a way to do add ons to the model you bring in, like maybe using 3-4 even 5 of those shaders GUi's that are used when importing .obj's? I was trying to string them together, but couldn't get them to, so gave up lol.  Anyway thanks for the update brothers all of you and yes was long winded and gave me all I needed, so thanks very very much.  I am working on a Scene now for a Space calender contest and having trouble building models that are only 16 meshes, and make it look like they have more, not easy to do sometimes......Work in progress, still have a spaceship import to do and I want a space suited person also in the scene, then maybe win an award using TGD2, will post and let Planet Side get Cudos if I can manage a win lol.

  OK I have to go work, but here is a image I am working on that is low Rez, but as you can see the power of tgd2 with models can be so very sweet and photorealistic which in my mind no other software can match.  So I hope you guys understand /winks.  huge hugs to all and have a HAPPY NEW YEAR my friends.

this is work in progress. I personally think tgd2 can step up to that bar easier then people think, they actually from what I can see as a non programmer it looks like they already almost have it now with a tweak or 2 /winks.
Thanks guys I feel much better.

DT

have a good one guys.
Maylock Aromy DeathTwister Stansbury
ATOMIX Productions

Harvey Birdman

Quote from: Virex on December 31, 2007, 12:15:00 PM
Well, if it is possible using image masks, wouldn't it be possible to substract 2 masks (either image or fractal) and use the normal version for the placement of one population and the inverted version for the placement of the other? That way, the populations would "avoid" eachother.

Exactly. A little imagination and the mask solution can be quite powerful (and easy).

Matt

#23
Cyber-Angel, my brain hurts...  :P

;)

Matt
Just because milk is white doesn't mean that clouds are made of milk.

Cyber-Angel

Quote from: Matt on January 03, 2008, 11:17:40 PM
Cyber-Angel, my brain hurts...  :P

;)

Matt


Never my intention, just expressing a few thoughts I had.

Regards to you.

Cyber-Angel 

Matt

Understood. It's good to test me sometimes :)
Just because milk is white doesn't mean that clouds are made of milk.

RedSquare

DeathTwister -
QuoteI love TGD2 and love the effect I can get as it is so much more realistic, and that is exactly why I want my models in tgd2, It is OK if I cannot animate them directly for now,

Whole heartedly agree with the above.  My models are crap but I still want them in a Terragen generated landscape/atmosphere/etc.  All I would add that it would take away much pain if Terragen would read a mtl file in the same order that it was created, instead of mixing up the materials/textures. Come to that consistantly read a mtl correctly would be something as well.  Not I would have thought a major big deal, but hell what do I know.  I do know that I shall wait patiently for the next release and like DeathTwister, keep my fingers crossed for the following release.   ;D

DeathTwister

HAHAHAHA ROTFL, they will get to our list soon I think, to many of us need those features and soon.  And I agree with ya on the .mtl files and the firing order of the mesh/textures.  It would also be nice to at least be able to go in and select one of the meshes in that drop down list, bring them into the scene, and then maybe say get one side of a model rendered, but it will not take a different file after you import it in, well it lets you move the texture in, just does not render it instead of the one you tried to replace.  Sure wouldn't mind being on the Beta team for this part if the tgd2 Dev, nope sure would not mind helping out a bit right now.

DT
Maylock Aromy DeathTwister Stansbury
ATOMIX Productions

peejay

DeathTwister

please see my post in the following link to deal with your dragon

http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=1255.msg12587#msg12587
adamans rebellis quod iustus nos

DeathTwister

Hay Peejay

  Thanks I will go check it out.  Love workarounds when I can figure them out, ro find what other peeps have figured out.  Hope I can make it work /smiles......

OH PS: have one entry and at least one more in rendering now for the NSS 2008 Calender Contest at:
http://www.nss.org/settlement/calendar/
and the entries so far are here at:
http://www.nss.org/settlement/calendar/gallery.htm

I thought I would enter this one and see how TGD2 stakes up to other apps, just wish I had time to get the modeling together more first.  So staying simple for the most part and doubt I have time to go through that Tut before the deadline hits, and redo files and the rendering and post before the deadline on the 11th, but hay, maybe we see /smiles........Thanks for the info.

DT
Maylock Aromy DeathTwister Stansbury
ATOMIX Productions