population madness

Started by digitalguru, October 23, 2024, 05:15:16 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Dune

This is very interesting. I'll do some tests with 'real'  trees.

digitalguru

Yes, very interesting! Thanks for the example Matt. I'll try it today with some leaf shaders and see how that goes, and to see if I can get a bit more contrast in the scene.

digitalguru

#32
I tried it with the textured leaf setup and, as you said the ground suffered quite a lot. The version that works makes the leaves go a bit nuclear, so I comped the canopy (with a "standard" leaf setup) over the ground with your setup ( and tried a liittle of Dune's opacity hack, though not so much - 0.85)

Haven't played with the shadow catcher shader as yet, but that might offer some flexibility, will try that when I have a bit more time. And of course, splitting into render elements should give a bit more control.

canopy_comp_01.jpg 

Dune

I did a quick test too. The leaf texture should really be pretty light. Interesting that translucency 2 and lighter leaves takes so much longer.

digitalguru

#34
Dune - good tests! Much more thorough than mine! I like the last two best, but would say somewhere between those two(trans=1.5?) Would be interesting to see more direct light breaking through the canopy throughout (for a more "dappled" scene) not just that central area. Also interesting to see the best result (at least to me) is with exposure at 1 (assuming that's what "exp" is), more useful as its not blowing out the rest of the scene just to get those shadows working.

Yes, experienced the same slowdown here (with higher translucency) as soon as I plugged textures into Matt's basic setup it rendered in a fraction of the time.

Edit: Did you try playing with the sunlight shadow softness? I tried reducing it in mine to allow a little more direct light through. Would also be interesting to see some direct shadow from the trees to see how this setup affects it.

Dune

I don't think translucency should be higher than 1 (not natural). I usually use around 0.4-0.6, but I may have to revise that strategy. Depends on the species of course, some have thicker blades in nature, letting less light through. It should also carry a texture (leaf nerves and all that), but I never do that, if only because a translucency mask is not quickly derived.
Exp=exposure indeed, and I think the one before last would be the goal, but with higher exposure. Quicker to render too, the latter is just too slow. I never thought it would take more time, I thought it would be a fixed number of light reflections/passes to be computed.

No I didn't change the shadow softness, I usually keep that at default (as it's the natural softness). What I also do occasionally is hovering an invisible (slightly illuminated) plane or dome above some dark area. But it's a cheat too, and takes time, and produces more grain. A little no shadow sun also helps, but then you sometimes get light inside parts you don't want light in (nose holes ;D ).

digitalguru

Quote from: Dune on November 15, 2024, 01:30:09 AMI never thought it would take more time, I thought it would be a fixed number of light reflections/passes to be computed.
Yes, that surprised me too, maybe Matt can shed some light on that.

For me, I think a lot of comp love is needed to get this working, to separate leaf shader values for shadow casting and beauty renders, but it's encouraging you got it working at a standard exposure (thinking about the last two images in your sequence). B.t.w in your last caption "exp 1 trans 1 opac 1 leaf 2" what is "leaf 2"?

Dune

I set the leaf texture base color to 2, which is pretty extreme IMO. Especially since the leaf texture itself wasn't overly dark.

digitalguru

Ah, I see, makes sense. It's that color contribution pushing up the render times then.

Dune

I still wonder why it would take a renderer longer to multiply something by 2 than by 0.8 ... ;)

digitalguru

Here's a very rough first test of the forest layout and lighting - still quite a bit to do, but getting close to what I'm aiming for:

comp_test_03.1001.jpg

Dune

Looks very good so far.

digitalguru


Matt

It feels dark compared to your reference photos, but that can be fixed by increasing exposure. (At the risk of me sounding like a broken record!)
Just because milk is white doesn't mean that clouds are made of milk.

digitalguru

I take your point, I think I need to get a bit more contrast more than anything. A lot of this is in the comp, so very tweakable.
I found some nice reference after I started this and I'd like to get closer the the image below:

dodge_powerToTheWeekend_000054596.jpg