Higher detail or Downsampling

Started by buchvecny, January 04, 2007, 04:17:12 PM

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efflux

It's not really that extreme. I do have a population of trees but there are only a few. I have a few fake stones and there are 3D clouds but not extreme. My problem is these stretched small scale ground displacements which run across the picture and the camera is at low POV. I've had similar problems in Mojo. Certain POVs need the extra detail otherwise it looks like pixelated lines even if a lot of the rest of the scene doesn't need it. However this render is also a quality test to see what kind of difference these setting make. I will show some pictures here of various settings on crops after the final render is finished. I'm expecting that to be tomorrow ::)

Oshyan


oggyb

Looking forward to seeing this efflux!

M.

efflux

Well my attempts here to get an image out of TG2 with the same kind of anti-aliasing that you'd get by simply rendering at say twice the size and then downsizing have more or less failed because this render is going to take ages yet. I've made some mistakes because I should have reduced the GI since that's relative to detail but my opinion now is that your probably better using a reasonable detail level and anti-aliasing and then downsizing because that seems to take a fraction of the time. How exactly does the anti-aliasing work relative to the detail? Also what exactly does detail blending do? I did set that at 2. Since the render has been running so long I'm not going to stop it but I'm guessing it will take another day. The trees are taking a huge amount of time to render. I set them at top quality because that's what was needed.

efflux

This is a link to the final render of that scene where I had the quality problems. You can probably see why, because of all the horizontal lines. I haven't time at the moment but I will get back here with more details and render quality comparisons. The problems also involved the trees.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/media/folder_137/file_1361392.jpg

Oshyan

Nice render actually. Looks like a noise shader stretched along one axis. Some of the settings you've used would definitely increase render time and may not have had a positive impact on the final visual outcome. But I'll wait until you provide some more details (and ideally a sample .tgd) before commenting further. I still maintain that proper use of the existing detail controls will net you an equal or better result to downsampling in the same or lesser time.

- Oshyan

efflux

That final render had a touch of post work. Partly because my PC monitor was not calibrated properly and I edited the trees as I will explain.

Below are non post worked crops showing different render settings of the ground. The top one was detail 1 the bottom was detail 5! I hope you can distinguish that there are 2 renders pasted together here. I's not very clear. The top also had a lower anti-aliasing setting. I think AA 2 and the bottom was 4. Possibly I should have balanced it with more AA and less detail but I found it didn't completely correct the noisy look. I should definitely have reduced GI because that was way too high at setting 2 with detail 5 because I presume it is relative to detail. There is not much point in showing other cropped tests of this area because they are basically between these settings but you can see the difference. The ground textures are made with 4 Power Fractals. Two on flatter lower ground and two on slopes which you can't really see here. The larger one is stretched on 1 axis and there is a smaller one that provides some sand like grain at very close view. It was a problematic POV. When I initially worked on these textures I was at a totally different planet location so they were not as stretched but then I ran into populations problems being away from position 0,0,0. I didn't want to increase anti-aliasing too much and create a blurry image. This was actually my first proper render with TG2 Deep. It ended up taking several days but I won't be using these settings again. Detail 5 is extreme but I am just testing.



Another problem shown below is that trees in a detail 1 render looked like the top picture and at detail 5 they looked like the bottom. I also increased the trees own rendering quality one step to top level but I don't think this caused the effect:



Probably connected with relative increase of GI but I don't understand this. I hope you can see the problem here to do with darkness of colours. I have a 24 inch Eizo monitor which shows every single deficiency. These are awesome monitors by the way. I tried an Apple Monitor but it was so bad I sent it back. Pink shades down one side. Not even close to the quality of the Eizo.

The final image was post worked to change this tree problem because I thought some trees were too dark. I also actually had to initially completely edit the textures on the tree because otherwise they would have turned out very dark but it turned out that at detail 5 they were dark anyway and it was the same file taking the same edited tree textures. At first I though I had somehow got the original textures back but this was not so. Trees all seem to end up very dark in TG. When you use GI this is further exemplified. Maybe because the leaves would need to be transparent and reflective to look right even at distance.

buchvecny

well i have eizo monitor also and i just can agree. When i send some dark pictures to my mother she barely sees anything on her monitor...
And yeah the tree quality is related to GI not the tree quality.