Problems of renders !

Started by Phylloxera, April 22, 2008, 01:13:00 PM

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rcallicotte

Okay.  It's working now.   ;D  The key is to use /3GB and not /3G.  Ooops. 

I'm using Professional and here is what is probably the safest way to do it -

Read this - http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/platform/server/PAE/PAEmem.mspx and then figure out how to edit the boot.ini.  There you add the switch, but I'd recommend having two entries under the [Operating System] section.  Something like this, depending on your OS that takes advantage of the PAE -

[boot loader]
timeout=15
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /fastdetect
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /fastdetect /3GB

It's good to have the timeout so you can switch to the 3G memory OS.  This will prevent possible screwups.
So this is Disney World.  Can we live here?

Matt

#31
Hi C-A,

Terragen does some things that few other renderers can - particularly extreme displacement of large surfaces - and this means that many algorithms have to be adapted or completely redesigned to work in fairly uncharted domains.

A Global Illumination system can rarely be labelled with just one term. They are a combination of multiple algorithms which each aim to solve a different aspect of the overall global illumination problem. Terragen does apply Monte Carlo principles, but I have taken a few liberties. Many improvements could be made to make it statistically more correct and give much higher quality results in a shorter time, but most of the development time has gone into developing a proprietary GI lighting cache (loosely based on the idea behind an Irradiance Cache, but with an emphasis on improving the kind of appearance of very rough surfaces) and interfacing it all with very large procedural landscapes. Actually that second part is the most difficult because of the huge complexity of the procedural model. Developing a renderer is as much an art as it is a science (or so I like to tell myself ;) ), and you can't always lift existing techniques and apply them directly if the renderer has a lot of unusual technology. But there is certainly an endless supply of research which could directly benefit Terragen, given enough time and resources.

You should also consider the possibility that maybe Terragen isn't really as slow as you think it is, for what it is doing in some scenes. For what that's worth :) I know it would be a much better product if render times could be significantly reduced, and with the new update we've made many changes to improve its ability to work at higher resolutions where Terragen has tended to suffer the most.

Matt
Just because milk is white doesn't mean that clouds are made of milk.

Cyber-Angel

Thanks for the reply Matt,

I had been wondering about it since I like to try and keep up with whats going on, one question if I may, is the Engine in TG2 based on the Paper "Robust Rendering of High Resolution Terrain" that you co wrote with Magnus Wrenninge and Mårten Larsson for Siggraph 2004?

;D

Regards to you.

Cyber-Angel

   

Matt

#33
For the most part, Terragen 2 is the continuation of the robust terrain renderer that Magnus Wrenninge and I described in that 2004 sketch, but some of the specifics of the shader engine are different. In a separate sketch Mårten Larsson presented an alternative rendering method which he'd developed to improve rendering speed in animations (inter-frame caching), but that hasn't been applied to Terragen 2. Both Magnus and Mårten have made further contributions to Digital Domain's renderer independent from TG2, and likewise myself and the others at Planetside Software have continually developed TG2 beyond what was presented in the 2004 sketch by Magnus and myself.

Matt
Just because milk is white doesn't mean that clouds are made of milk.

Christopher

#34
Speaking of Mårten Larsson. Check this site out and download the PDFs. There is one that describes Procedural Oceans and even has a small render image with procedural crashing waves. Looks impressive judging from the image.    :o

http://www.martenlarsson.com/martenlarsson2/page.php?page=1&subPage=1&officialmode=

and yes, there is lots more there at his site.

Mohawk20

Hmm, that MOAM technique looks pretty nice...

Matt, can you use a technique like that? Or are you allready implementing it?
Howgh!

Moose

Quote from: Christopher on April 28, 2008, 12:58:37 AM
Speaking of Mårten Larsson. Check this site out and download the PDFs. There is one that describes Procedural Oceans and even has a small render image with procedural crashing waves. Looks impressive judging from the image.    :o

http://www.martenlarsson.com/martenlarsson2/page.php?page=1&subPage=1&officialmode=

and yes, there is lots more there at his site.

Thanks for that link, it was a good read. :)


Quote from: Mohawk20 on April 28, 2008, 04:00:42 AM
Hmm, that MOAM technique looks pretty nice...

Matt, can you use a technique like that? Or are you allready implementing it?

Just as a random poll on one user's opinion concerning TG's development... I'd sooner see efforts put into MOAM-like techniques to bring the render times down along with solid data interchange features, before broader work on things like wave systems (as cool as they look, and they do :)) get a look-in. I'm guessing / hoping PS have this well in hand though. :)

rcallicotte

Highly displaced terrain?  http://www.martenlarsson.com/martenlarsson2/videos/TG_movie.mov  Planets that look good close and far away?  Faces in geometry?  What are you holding out on us, Mr. Fairclough?   ;D
So this is Disney World.  Can we live here?

Mohawk20

Quote from: calico on April 28, 2008, 09:49:17 AM
Highly displaced terrain?  http://www.martenlarsson.com/martenlarsson2/videos/TG_movie.mov  Planets that look good close and far away?  Faces in geometry?  What are you holding out on us, Mr. Fairclough?   ;D

Nothing really, we can do that with some workarounds. However, these things are made by Digital Domain, and are probably copyrighted by them.

After reading all those articles, it seems like they have their own customized version of Terragen 2... which seems to be faster as well.
So Matt, maybe you might want to get those guys on the planetside team, go get some of the workload off you shoulders?
Howgh!

nikita

IIRC Matt worked at Digital Domain. When he left, he continued to develop TG2. Digital Domain continued to develop what they now call Engen.

rcallicotte

So...I seem to remember that planet backward zoom shot on the Planetside site.  Is this something we could actually do as well as what we see there or is this movie an example of what can be done with the SDK?


Quote from: nikita on April 28, 2008, 12:13:46 PM
IIRC Matt worked at Digital Domain. When he left, he continued to develop TG2. Digital Domain continued to develop what they now call Engen.
So this is Disney World.  Can we live here?

Matt

Quote from: calico on April 28, 2008, 09:49:17 AM
Highly displaced terrain?  http://www.martenlarsson.com/martenlarsson2/videos/TG_movie.mov  Planets that look good close and far away?  Faces in geometry?  What are you holding out on us, Mr. Fairclough?   ;D

Nothing at all. It's all down to how you use the technology :)

Matt
Just because milk is white doesn't mean that clouds are made of milk.

Matt

Quote from: calico on April 28, 2008, 01:26:15 PM
So...I seem to remember that planet backward zoom shot on the Planetside site.  Is this something we could actually do as well as what we see there or is this movie an example of what can be done with the SDK?

The Mars movie was rendered entirely in alpha versions of Terragen 2, using the MOLA Map Shader and some other fractal shaders.

Matt
Just because milk is white doesn't mean that clouds are made of milk.

rcallicotte

Cool, Matt.  Perhaps I'm being arrogant to assume I can, but this gives me hope.  Thanks for letting us know even more...awesome works going on with all you've been involved with.
So this is Disney World.  Can we live here?