Planetside is crooked.

[JimB]

And what makes you so qualified to be the definitive voice of authority on how things should be, Harvey? Having nearly a thousand posts isn't a qualification.

[Oshyan]

Folks, please keep the discussion civil. We've never really had to lock any threads here and that's a testament to the overall civility and friendly nature of this community. Let's not break that tradition.

Harvey, if you would like a refund please contact registrations @ planetside.co.uk and they will take care of it.

Thanks,

Oshyan

[PG]

Someone give him his money back, please I think Planetside can survive with £100 less in the bank, there can't be that many people buying it as Calico said in the announcement thread so they must have some other form of financial sustenance.

[Harvey Birdman]

And what makes you so qualified to be the definitive voice of authority on how things should be, Harvey? Having nearly a thousand posts isn't a qualification.

Huh? Sorry, I'm afraid I don't follow you.

I'm sending my request to reg now. We'll see what happens.

[PG]

I'm guessing he means that pure post numbers doesn't generate authority over others. George Bush thinks otherwise.

[Harvey Birdman]

George Bush thinks otherwise.

Now that's low. What have I done that could possibly warrant association with 'W'?   

[PG]

Ooh sorry, wasn't thinking At least I didn't use Rummy or Chains Dickinson (Cheney)

[DeathTwister]

Hay all, Well I do not know if I would call it fraud guys, but I would call it very very management at the very least and PS needs restructuring very badly if it is going to survive.  As if there are that many of us good artists that are finally have had it and all the newbie 3d artists gave up on this software over a year ago, they really need to rethink what they are doing and had better listen to us the real end users or they flat out will go under within 2 years as you just can't run a company like this.

  I had to close a Monthly contest on Renderosity because people started to really hate TGD2 and said it was to buggy and to hard to use, and they could not get there models in at all as well as other concerns.  That was a year ago they got disgusted the regular GP anyway. TG contests still going there as it is a easy piece of software to use, and for the most part a finished product.

  Also maybe we all should get refunds of the full price we paid for it until they really do finish it, then I would give a dam if they updated it or not, but when one has 400 bucks or so into all this, then it really gets kinda looking like fraud even if it is bad, very bad management teamwork that got them in that boat.  That and they better find some deep pockets to fund the final part of this is it is a ducket issue and hire better people if not more, as more is not what is needed I am betting, but maybe better programmers that don't sit on butt all the time, but most likely it is the Management that don't kno9w how to run the company and that is what I think is killing them.

  I for one think if they don't screw this up for us and start to listen to us, that they can succeed handsomely, but only if they get there chit together.

  But I will save the rest of what I have to say on the other post that is ongoing as I have never seen so many bugs for a update in my life and I wanted to share just a small bit of what I tried to do today that should have been  a no brainer with the build before the new build.  Anyway I do agree with Oshyan that we keep it civil and not swear or any of that stuff, however we do haver the right to give our opinions and hope the PS will take much to heart and not blow us all off either on the guise of saying we are not being proper.  So there is a fine line to this after all. So while PS is asking us to be civil, it is also time for them to respect us and be that way back in kind and start some real diologue with us and stop blowing us off all the time.  There is an old saying which seems to have been lost in business.  The customer is always right, remember that proud saying that went so far in the old days when people had respect for each other?

  And in closing I doubt there is one of us that has paid the full price that is not upset with PS at this time and PS better understand that point as it is more then getting our money back, way more to it then that.  But I am sure PS is working on a solution for us as we post so lets see if they really are our friends and care what we feel as their end users.  Aye?

DeathTwister

[lightning]

And i believe you should be entitled to a refund, but don't expect to get a discounted price when tg2 does finally release.

I'll take the $200 in hand, as opposed to vaporware in the bush. I'm more than willing to take the chance; I don't think anyone will ever see a real product from this crew.

And Oshyan's business, which you repeat, of first 90% easy, last 10% hard is bullshit. If you make a statement like that you're just revealing that you don't really understand what's involved in releasing an actual commercial quality product, as opposed to a hobbyist hack job.

The first 90% takes 90% of the time and the last 10% takes 10% of the time. If you've concluded otherwise you need to re-evaluate what is involved in releasing a commercial product.

look planetside can you refund this guys payment and ban him from this site he is getting really annoying
it must be the 20th time this guys started an uproar. dude there is nothing you can do about it so stop complaining!!
if you hate planetside so much get your refund,pack your bags and get the hell out of here

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[JimB]

I had to close a Monthly contest on Renderosity because people started to really hate TGD2 and said it was to buggy and to hard to use, and they could not get there models in at all as well as other concerns.  That was a year ago they got disgusted the regular GP anyway. TG contests still going there as it is a easy piece of software to use, and for the most part a finished product.

You mean the Technology Preview of mid-2007?

[gregsandor]

I had to close a Monthly contest on Renderosity because people started to really hate TGD2 and said it was to buggy and to hard to use, and they could not get there models in at all as well as other concerns.  That was a year ago they got disgusted the regular GP anyway. TG contests still going there as it is a easy piece of software to use, and for the most part a finished product.

You mean the Technology Preview of mid-2007?

Renderosity userbase is not a good measure of Terragen2.  For my part I tried to enter the challenge there and it was just to damned complicated to enter; in fact DT you and I exchanged posts about my difficulty in finding links to the correct page for the challenge.  I genuinely appreciate the work you did there to run a challenge, but I couldn't figure out how to enter.     

[Matt]

Dave, I have refunded your $200.

Matt

[Harvey Birdman]

Thanks, but it probably would have been better if you had asked for an account number first; it's probable that the account used to purchase the program is no longer current.

I will know if something shows up by tomorrow; I'll let you know.

[neuspadrin]

And Oshyan's business, which you repeat, of first 90% easy, last 10% hard is bullshit. If you make a statement like that you're just revealing that you don't really understand what's involved in releasing an actual commercial quality product, as opposed to a hobbyist hack job.

The first 90% takes 90% of the time and the last 10% takes 10% of the time. If you've concluded otherwise you need to re-evaluate what is involved in releasing a commercial product.

you obviously don't do much in computer science.  when programming you write 90% of the code very quickly an easily.  the code base will work, almost everything will work.  thats why we say the last 10% is the hardest, as to finish up the program its only small things left in thousands of lines of code.  90% of the final code is there, the last 10% that will be added takes much longer.  its the little tweaks and finding weird bugs and finding how to replicate some oddities (as some only occur with certain hardware or settings, etc... you have to replicate or use bug reports and do your best to figure out what the hell happened and why it happened in the code, and then find a way to fix it without messing up other things or having to rewrite major bits of code).

so it really depends on how you think about 90% and 10%.  if you think its 90% towards being done in a sense of time, then yes 10% is 10% and 90% is 90%.  but as for project completeness and lines of code and number of bugs no longer in the code, 90% is almost everything working (our tech previews), and 10% is what takes a long time to squash all those things out.  thats because the last little bit are the annoying bugs that can take forever to find.  you can easily spend a very long time trying to trace through lines of code finding where one thing breaks, and then figure out the best way to patch it. 

you got your refund, so be happy.... and they are such crocks, issuing their refunds and such.  and if you are gonna treat everyone like we know jack shit about the world and how products work, why don't you also consider the fact you spew nonsense and are so damn condescending and refuse to accept other peoples view points, and maybe you are the one who doesn't quite understand the process and the circumstances.  personally, with PS being so small, I'm amazed how well they are doing, and how good of a product they have already shown us, and how great the product will be once its finally complete.  And maybe before going on the forums and accusing PS of being crocks you should actually EMAIL them requesting a refund before just slandering (actually, libel, but whatever) them on the forums repeatedly.

[reck]

Dave, I have refunded your $200.

Matt

That's great news. That means Mr 1000+ posts man (or whatever he was boasting about) can clear off now and leave the rest of us to start enjoying the forums again and use them for actually discussing the software and not bitching.

It will be interesting to come back to this thread in the future when Terragen 2 is released to see which members were doing all the bitching about release dates, vapourware etc

Oh and Matt, maybe you should keep Harvey's email address on file, that way you can send him a "Terragen 2 final is released" email when the time comes.