To U.S.A. People Who Can Vote

[JimB]

No, I mean manufacturing and services being out-sourced to other countries like China, India, etc. Good for shareholder profits, bad for the local economy.

[PG]

Oh I see. Well again it does enter more in to politics. Yes it's bad for the local economy but it's actually better for the national economy. The "buy American" thing is actualy detrimental to the American economy because it causes inflation to rise.

[rcallicotte]

"yeah right, more like marxism..."   PG, that argument is getting so old it smells.

Simply, the same wisdom that has been true throughout history sticks its head up and waves -  "He who oppresses the poor to increase his riches, and he who gives to the rich, will surely come to poverty."  This is a fact. 

Of course, I forgot that those who claim such great wisdom by studying nearly always forget that the one thing we have learned is that we don't learn from history.

[PG]

Well that proverb comes from the same book that claims a man parted the Red Sea with a stick so I'd take its accuracy with a pinch of salt. This is philosophy, not politics nor economics, it's not a fact it's still an idea. Yes it keeps rearing its head but it also keeps getting knocked the hell back down by the mallet of logic.

[Mohawk20]

Hmmm, this conversation has gone from pissing on Obama to pissing on the Bible...

Just to be clear, the red sea wasn't parted by the man with the stick, according to the book, but by God (who might just be an advanced alien for all you care), and timed to the movements of the man with the stick.

There's a difference there.



Still, the proverb does have some validity. The people who tried to dominate or just wanted to get rich, still died, and most of them are forgotten.

[rcallicotte]

This isn't about religion.  It's about facts.  Like the fact you can't stick your hand through the earth and come out the other side or that you can't jump off of a 30 story building naked and not die on impact.  Religion can be ethereal and mysterious and oftentimes lacks logic, but here are two things that you are bypassing with your "logic", PG -

1.  If you oppress the masses (the poor), your power will eventually evaporate into nothingness and likely you will be much poorer than you started
2.  A person who sucks up to the rich man will not be respected by anyone and will end up losing everything

Logical?

Well that proverb comes from the same book that claims a man parted the Red Sea with a stick so I'd take its accuracy with a pinch of salt. This is philosophy, not politics nor economics, it's not a fact it's still an idea. Yes it keeps rearing its head but it also keeps getting knocked the hell back down by the mallet of logic.

[PG]

Well actually that proverb comes from the American standard bible, thus making it theological and a synchronised religious version of swan lake makes me no more inclined to believe that 12th century monks know any more about the 21st century economy than the current governments. So I stick to my judgement that you are not quoting facts.
Edit: and I'm not pissing on anything, I'm dismissing it from the debate entirely because, for the reason I stated above, it has no relevance.

[efflux]

I haven't read through all this thread but in my opinion the lesser evil won which is a step in the right direction.

[efflux]

Read through some of this thread.

There seems to a general idea by some that it's OK to be insanely wealthy. The problem is that much of that wealth is unproductive which is not good.

It's an exponential debt based economy. It's unsustainable and debt slaves everyone but that's when it crumbles since most of this whole toxic waste ponzi scheme produces less and less wealth instead of producing actual useful things that are not numbers on computers.

Health care is better handled by government. It actually ends up cheaper but there is no ideal way of doing this.

One problem is that democracy often fails because people vote for a government that gives them stuff like allowing (or it seems actually encouraging) banks to lend out insane mortgages and then people want the government to help them out again with getting mortgages when the houses they bought are worth way less than they paid since these houses were vastly overvalued due to the insane mortgage hand outs. When you live way beyond your means it comes home to roost i.e. you are owned by the people that gave you all this stuff. The people that you voted into power.

Trickle round theory would be more accurate than trickle down.

nvseal makes these points:

"This country could never have reached its current affluence without capitalism."

You could change the word capitalism to slavery. That's what capitalism always heads towards and why it has to have some regulation but actual regulation to achieve fairness not damaging interference. It heads in this direction because of psychopathically greedy and control seeking people who use money as their method but the rest of the population are complicit as well, also through greed but with short term results in their case.

Try reading this with more replaced by less:

"The more you are worth the more you are paid"

Yet it means the same and what is this worth? How much are these banking oligarchs worth to the rest of us? What about their moral worth.

If you think capitalism should be given free reign then you would would have to agree that all these soon to be unemployed excess workers in an overpopulated world who won't accept the slave wages imposed on outsourced workers should really just be exterminated. That would be the economic thing to do if you subscribe to a system that has no moral code.

Government is meant to be the top tier of control not bankers. That's why this thing termed "globalism" is no good. It is not controlled by democratic means. We have politicians actually telling us this - the problem is "global" so out of their control while at the same time they are promoting this globalism. Who are they working for?

Either people like Alan Greenspan were incredibly stupid or they knew exactly what they were doing but if they are stupid then they are just told what to do anyway.



"In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way."
Franklin D. Roosevelt