E-on learns from Planetside - Free Vue 7 Beta (or so we hoped...)

Started by Mohawk20, December 17, 2008, 05:39:37 AM

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Mohawk20

Quote from: PG on March 28, 2009, 02:31:15 PM
The same style image, same resolution and quality, 26 hours 15 minutes in TG2, 25 hours and 34 minutes in Vue. To me that's not worth $600.

That's a good thing to know. Now I'm absolutely sure I'm not missing out on anything...
Howgh!

rcallicotte

Me too.  Thanks PG.

Quote from: Mohawk20 on March 28, 2009, 05:49:41 PM
Quote from: PG on March 28, 2009, 02:31:15 PM
The same style image, same resolution and quality, 26 hours 15 minutes in TG2, 25 hours and 34 minutes in Vue. To me that's not worth $600.

That's a good thing to know. Now I'm absolutely sure I'm not missing out on anything...
So this is Disney World.  Can we live here?

Seth

Quote from: PG on March 28, 2009, 02:31:15 PM
The same style image, same resolution and quality, 26 hours 15 minutes in TG2, 25 hours and 34 minutes in Vue. To me that's not worth $600.

I totally disagree about this statement.
Vue6 was a lot faster than TG2 and Vue7 (from what I heard from people I know that use it) is a lot faster than Vue6

Mohawk20

Quote from: Seth on March 29, 2009, 11:00:05 AM
I totally disagree about this statement.
Vue6 was a lot faster than TG2 and Vue7 (from what I heard from people I know that use it) is a lot faster than Vue6

At the same quality, or at default quality? And have you tried yourself? Just to be sure of course... I'm gonna stick with TG2 anyway.  ;D
Howgh!

Seth

yeah i tried Vue6 by myself some month ago, and it is really a lot faster than TG2.
as for Vue7, I know Darthmagus, and he really is astonished by the speed increasing of Vue7 over Vue6. check his website on darthmagus.com to have some idea f the quality of the renders...

and you should ask Buzzzzz, his Vue renders were as good as his TG2 renders, and he might give you render's time.

latego

You can easily get obscene render times in Vue is you crank uselessly up atmosphere/antialias quality settings (something a TG user is quite likely to do just out of despise for Vue "inferior" engine ;)).

When you are creating your final render:
1) if you use Infinite, forget about default settings and customize the parameters to your needs;
2) if you don't have Infinite, Final is good enough for stills and broadcast for animations; higher settings are simply stupidly expensive;
3) tune quality boosts (scattered around in Vue) by doing small, cropped renders of critical parts (e.g. clouds);
4) consider buying noise reduction tools like NoiseNinja (there are used even by users of big renderes like FryRender).

Bye!!!

P.S.: most of these recommendations work also for Terragen or ANY other rendering program.

Jack

nice tips im a avid vue user so these might come in helpful people here are starting  to get like the guys on the ps3 vs xbox 360 thread pretty pathetic :-X
My terragen gallery:
http://wetbanana.deviantart.com/

Mohawk20

Heheh, good call.

I do want to be honest. If Vue is good, then it's good, also if it's better than TG  ;)


But I do think their marketing strategy was a bit wrong with this last product.
Howgh!

PG

Quote from: latego on March 29, 2009, 02:50:03 PM
You can easily get obscene render times in Vue is you crank uselessly up atmosphere/antialias quality settings (something a TG user is quite likely to do just out of despise for Vue "inferior" engine ;)).

Yeah...?.? Isn't that what I was just saying? Vue's default render settings are a lot less detailed than Terragens, so if you pump them they take about the same amount of time. If you leave them as default then Vue has less work to do (especially as it has no GI pre-pass) so it'll do it faster. :-\
Figured out how to do clicky signatures

rcallicotte

Exactly.  I'm not looking for BS.  Just what's real.  Maybe Buzzzzz can weigh in on the difference in speeds.  I've seen some Vue renders that are sensational.


Quote from: Mohawk20 on March 29, 2009, 07:40:50 PM
Heheh, good call.

I do want to be honest. If Vue is good, then it's good, also if it's better than TG  ;)


But I do think their marketing strategy was a bit wrong with this last product.
So this is Disney World.  Can we live here?

latego

Quote from: PG on March 30, 2009, 05:24:01 AM
Quote from: latego on March 29, 2009, 02:50:03 PM
You can easily get obscene render times in Vue is you crank uselessly up atmosphere/antialias quality settings (something a TG user is quite likely to do just out of despise for Vue "inferior" engine ;)).

Yeah...?.? Isn't that what I was just saying? Vue's default render settings are a lot less detailed than Terragens, so if you pump them they take about the same amount of time. If you leave them as default then Vue has less work to do (especially as it has no GI pre-pass) so it'll do it faster. :-\

Actually I said exactly the opposite...

I really found 2 great differences between TG and Vue (though this is likely not to be an exhaustive list because I did not spend much time with TG2):

1) TG2 terrains are much more sharper/detailed. True, because TG adds by default tiny displacement (not only bump mapping) to terrains and therefore the comparison TG Terrains vs. Vue standard terrains is totally unfair. To make a fair comparison you have to put in one side of the ring TG terrains and on the other Vue procedural terrains with displacement materials: only in this case the comparison is fair.

2) Vue textures look fuzzy. True, because, for a reason I cannot fathom, textures are not only antialiased by rendering parameters, but also as texture property (in the Advanced Material Editor window, on the upper right, you will see a checkbox labeled Anti-aliased; uncheck it and rerender. You will be astonished by how much the corresponding material becomes sharper. If you have Infinite, in the Render Options windows, press the Anti-Aliasing button to open the corresponding Anti-Aliasing Options window and select Crisp as strategy, this will boost even more the sharpness of the render). Every default texture I have opened has this unwanted extra-antialising step selected... so roll up your sleeves.

E-On likes to torpedo its product... another demented setting is the new value of the quality of the ecosystem population engine: now it is just 43% and if you do not raise it, you have trees happily growing inside objects, even when told to stay away from them (raise this setting to 100%; ecosystem population is just slightly slowed ant the results are much better).

Bye!!!

P.S.: recently I bought Carrara 7 and I found that its engine gives easily very sharp renders and noticed that the terrain fedelity to externally generated terrain maps is just unbelievable; the down side is that things that are just a few clicks away in Vue require some actual work in Carrara. For example, you have not ecosystems as materials: you create Surface Replicators, add them the objects to replicate and then, if required, edit the shaders which control object placement. The end result is as powerful as Vue one, but much more work intensive.

P.P.S.: Vue looks intuitive but it is not. You have to learn a lot in order to be able to make it do exactly what you want. The largest Vue tutorial site (http://www.geekatplay.com/) has 107 different tutorials in just the generic area; then you have specialized interests! The reality is that if you want to attain a certain effect, you have to put into action the required machinery; it will be presented to you in different ways in different applications, but at the end, there are no free lunches...

PG

I've never tried Carrara...not that I remember ;D.
Terragen and Vue can't really be compared, which I think your post shows. They're built in completely different ways, Terragen for quality, Vue for production speed. You need to double every quality setting in Vue just to get close to the quality of TG2 and then the speed goes out the window.
Figured out how to do clicky signatures