Please help. I love this program but I can't figure this out.

sexynerd · May 16, 2009, 11:35:30 PM

Hey,
I just began using this program recently and am still trying to learn the ins and outs of it. I am on the Chapter 4 in the user docs and it says to 'replace the heightfield in the default scene with a procedural, as described in your first scene'
I don't remember doing that.
Is it the power fractal?
I am really confused. Could someone help me?

Oshyan · May 16, 2009, 11:41:20 PM

Yes, that would be the Power Fractal. Have you gone through the revised "Your First Scene" document? It can be found in the new TG2 help section of our website: http://www.planetside.co.uk/content/view/31/47/

A user interface guide will be posted soon, followed a bit later by guides covering each of the major areas of TG2 (Terrain, Shaders, Objects, etc.).

- Oshyan

sexynerd · May 16, 2009, 11:43:32 PM

Well, my friend and I printed this out Thursday. Did you guys update it since then? We absolutely love this program and can't wait for more tutorials to come out. We are passionate about learning this program inside and out.
Thanks for the help! I can now move on with my learning!

Oshyan · May 16, 2009, 11:45:45 PM

No, it has not been updated since Thursday. It's just that there is an older version here in the forums, so as long as you used the one on that page, you have the latest version.

- Oshyan

WillBellJr · May 18, 2009, 04:51:55 PM

Will the documentation be complete before the end of May cutoff?

Trying to make the decision whether to jump in (kissing Vue Infinite goodbye) and it'll be hard to do that without being able to read and learn about the program and see what it will be able to accomplish for me.

-Will

neuspadrin · May 18, 2009, 05:00:36 PM

Quote from: WillBellJr on May 18, 2009, 04:51:55 PM
Trying to make the decision whether to jump in (kissing Vue Infinite goodbye) and it'll be hard to do that without being able to read and learn about the program and see what it will be able to accomplish for me.

Documentation won't really be able to fully show everything, if anything to learn its abilities of what you can accomplish take a look at image sharing section, especially anything from the NWDA crowd.

FrankB · May 18, 2009, 05:01:30 PM

Hi Will,

only speaking to myself - but I think that the documentation is not going to help you make that decision at all. Instead, as TG2 beta has been around for a while, you should probably gain the most decision making support from looking at the renders that have been done to date. I think the planetside gallery is a good start for that.
Other than that, if you have specific purposes and plans with TG2, just tell us what it is, and to the best of our knowlede we'll help you understand if and how those things can be achieved in TG2.

best regards,
Frank

Quote from: WillBellJr on May 18, 2009, 04:51:55 PM
Will the documentation be complete before the end of May cutoff?

Trying to make the decision whether to jump in (kissing Vue Infinite goodbye) and it'll be hard to do that without being able to read and learn about the program and see what it will be able to accomplish for me.

-Will

pclavett · May 18, 2009, 05:08:56 PM

I know what you are talking about and will appreciate an updated user guide ! The forum is where I find the most help and they will direct you to available information and Tutorials. Other than that just take some files and dissect the hell out of them. That helps ! I am also moving on from Vue as it is incredibly unstable, at least on the Mac, and awaiting to see if they can fix this ! Otherwise TG2 is producing incredibly more realistic landscapes, at least from what I can see in the galleries ! See my previous post at: http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=6471.0 . Last week I could not produce soil that looked right. These files point you in the right direction... look at the settings, the flow of nodes, and most of all...experiment a lot !

Good Luck !

Paul

WillBellJr · May 19, 2009, 11:48:20 AM

Believe me, I already know of TG's wonderful images and renders - that's why I'm interested in perhaps adding it to my toolkit.

My thing is, without documentation - will I be able to create those fantastic images?

Recently the Unity game engine (v2.5) was released for Windows.

I was able to do in Unity in about 5 hours what I have never been able to do with about 4 other game engines I've licensed and a bunch more that I demo'd.

Part of that reason was because Unity's documentation is excellent (compared to the other engines) and even integrated within the system; click a book icon next to an item and get immediate help on that feature.

All of the other engines (sans perhaps one) always expected you to "go to the forums and ask" or "start from the tutorials and samples and learn from there..."

It's hard getting things accomplished (for me) when I have to constantly ask questions on a forum.

Granted, this has nothing to do with TG - except for the fact I'm hearing the same kinds of advice - dissect the demos and visit the forums...

I'm the kind of person that likes to grab a cup of tea, pull up an easy chair and read the documentation.

Now I did start going though the Beginners tutorial and so far I'm doing okay.

I'm not sure TG will fit completely into what I'm doing - again working with Unity, I'd need perhaps terrain meshes and textures which I could import (Obj, FBX, LWO etc.)

Pretty matte background images may be enough in a lot of cases but for my game (Wing Commander - spaceflight / action type), my goal is to create planets that I can "fly down to" from space.

In the old game you'd fly up to a planet and at a triggered point, an animated cutscene would take you down - which is well within what TG can do.

There was a youtube link (which I don't have on hand right now) that showed an game demo where there was a seamless transition from the ground up to space and back down again.

This however isn't really related to TG, the game engine has to support the huge sizes for that - not sure of Unity limits on that yet being a newbie to it and all.

If there was a way to use TG in that workflow (create planet surface & planet sphere etc.,) that would be another use for me for sure.

If TG will let me render out the seperate maps (color, bump, normal etc.,) I could definitely see using TG for a good portion of what I need to do - especially for the planets I don't "fly down to".

Again, besides the gorgeous mattes I know TG is capable of, any other integration with my game engine would be icing for me.

-Will

rcallicotte · May 19, 2009, 12:21:32 PM

@WillBellJr - Unfortunately for your situation, you will need to understand how to use TG2 to do what you're asking about. Actually, people have done all of these things you've mentioned, but they understood the basic workings of TG2.

I suggest looking at these tutorials, after you finish these - http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?board=12.0;sort=subject

This should be plenty of cups of tea.

WillBellJr · May 19, 2009, 03:44:52 PM

Thanks so much for the links you've provided - I loved the tut on the planet renders - exactly the kinds of images I'm looking to make.

Instead of using LunarCell or some artificial means to create my planets, this would be a wonderful way to actually uh, grow a planet and then perhaps have the additional assets (textures, terrains etc.,) to use in my game - if that's even possible?
(Texture extraction to images, extracting portions of the terrain as meshes from the "planet" itself? I would only need say a handful of >small< terrain extractions (places to land on) anyway!)

I see Volker Harun, deserves some thanks and kudos - I quickly skimmed though his tutorial and enjoyed it - I can imagine all he has contributed to this community over time! I thought it was cute how people were admitting to their "Volker Harun collections" and all.

Coming all the way from Vista Pro and Vue, I've known of TG from its beginning, just never bought into it (forcing myself to struggle with Vue all this time.)

A question was asked today about what the "maximum terrain size" Unity can handle and the answer given was that the limits was around a single precision float:
"There isn't a maximum size, other than that imposed by single-precision floating point data. Of course, the larger it is, the lower resolution it is. Unless you want to stitch multiple terrains together, in which case the resolution can be whatever you like and the maximum size is infinity..."

Again I'm not looking to have huge outdoor environments, just a coupla bases to land on and places to "visit" but again I'd love that seamless transition from land to space if possible.

I would love to use TG2 if at all possible for what I'm doing, so I have a lot to determine before the end of May!

-Will

Oshyan · May 20, 2009, 01:23:20 AM

Hi Will. I'm the main author of the documentation, including what is already here ("Your First Scene" and the rest). So if the style and coverage of what you see already seems like it would serve your needs, when available in a completed form, then you may be able to extrapolate. More will definitely be available soon, and I do apologize for the delays.

As for what you specifically want to do with it, I don't actually think TG2 is that suitable. Quite frankly I think your plans are extremely ambitious. The game you're thinking of that does what you want to do is probably Infinity: The Quest For Earth, which is indeed a very impressive system: http://www.infinity-universe.com/Infinity/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=26
Note however that the only way it is able to do the things it does is that is almost entirely procedurally generated. TG2 is the same, but as soon as you try to export textures and geometry, you'll very, very quickly run into memory issues, or detail issues, or both. That's why systems like TG2 and Infinity use native procedural functions, because they can be calculated at run-time, on-demand, so that they don't take up massive amounts of memory.

In any case TG2 does not export textures in any direct way. You can only use a top-down orthographic render to get texture data, and this is not really a very accurate, complete, or scalable way to do it. An actual texture export function is not currently available. TG2 is really built as a renderer, more than a texture generator, so it's primary value is in what the renderer can do. In using it solely as a texture and landscape generator, you're kind of missing a lot of its value. It's certainly possible, but TG2 may not be the best tool for your needs.

- Oshyan

gregsandor · May 20, 2009, 02:41:52 AM

You should look into Leveller http://www.daylongraphics.com/products/leveller/index.php and World Machine http://www.world-machine.com/

WillBellJr · May 20, 2009, 02:16:37 PM

Thanks Oshyan and GregSandor!

Yes, I was looking for some export functions last nite and noted that I didn't see anything applicable to what I'm looking to do.

I did however like what I initially achieved with the planet building tutorial - once again I love the renders that are capable with TG2.

Yes, I believe it was Infinity with the seamless transitions - I'll have to check to be sure.

I've seen some of those games with the procedurally generated planets - I believe my game ideas while aggressive are on a much smaller scale.

The original Wing Commander Privateer game (which is my pattern) had various places you could land in each system (mostly with repeated graphics or course; "bar", "commodity exchange" etc.) - I'm hoping to have a bit more variety but still within limitations.

Don't get me wrong, TG's renders are still quite valuable for what I'm doing, it's just it would have been nice to be able to pull off some diffuse/bump/normal exports for direct assignment to my planet spheres within Unity...

I'm more than willing to have an animated planet falls so again TG is applicable.

I'm familiar with World Machine, having eval'd it years ago - granted, having (finally) chosen my game engine, it may be worth looking into it again.

Leveller I'm not familiar with at all - I'll take a gander and see what it does - thanks!

I appreciate your responses and I'll keep working though what information is available on TG2.

As complex as TG2 is, (and for most 3D applications frankly), documentation is crucial to being able to achieve the most from these complex applications and systems.

Without comprehensive docs, only the people that were around during an application's development understand the application to the fullest, allowing them to achieve the most from it...

TG2 deserves the best documentation available so that everyone can jump in and achieve what clearly the masters here obtain on a regular basis!

Back to figuring out how to get some visible land masses at the planet level...

-Will