Copyright Protection and Clip Files

[Seth]

I would appreciate if you all could now let us get back to work again, and let us return our focus back on having fun with TG2, and develop more good presets for the TG2 universe.

Damn true !
I always find blahblah very boring...
And the only ones who should have been concern are the PS staff... and I clearly heard the position of Oshyan ^^
I go back to TG2 ! and you should do the same guys, that's better than talkin' about copyright stuff (specially when you have no use of copyright)

[rcallicotte]

Frank, this will always be a problem, until commercial packages can be made by Planetside that hide the nodes and even then it might be questionable in court as to what's what.  This is a very sticky surface between getting opportunities to learn TG2 by people sharing and people wanting money for their hard work.  To avoid problems, I'll just learn from your Personal packs and hopefully get an opportunity to put what I learn to good use in something where we can make real money.  This is what I've done with Nikita's tutorials.

I'm glad we're all straight.

I hope this answer satisfies everyone's questions. I would appreciate if you all could now let us get back to work again, and let us return our focus back on having fun with TG2, and develop more good presets for the TG2 universe.

Cheers,
Frank

[Mr_Lamppost]

Hi Frank

Thanks for your answer, I was really just using the cirrus layer as an example of the difficulties relating to copyright rather than singling you out.  Your position sounds eminently sensible to me.

[spinner]

I don't post here often, but I've been around the 3D-community a while. Please allow me to be a devil's advocate:

Why do clip-files differ from tutorials one buys at i.e 3D Palace or at Gnomon, provided you purchase a commercial license, and intend to learn from it, in order to hone your skills?
Where does one draw the line between a skill learned, with a potential similar outcome, and a ripoff? Is it up to the initial creator of the file to draw that line, or someone else?
In any case, this is a really dangerous line to draw - especially if someone with that gripe takes it public - a kangaroo court, especcially when it turns out someone has in fact applied learned skills and not someone's shader, is still libel/slander/defamation, and can really damage someone's business - yet another reason for a potentially big backlash.

If I bought clipfiles, I'd want the EULA to explain to me what I could do and not, also when it came to learning and applying those skills, and stated *very* clearly in said EULA - that way the clip-file artist would be a tad safer, as the baseline for applied knowledge would be set.

Please understand I am no fan of ripping people off - I get to see my own stuff from DAZ on the warez sites often enough, not to mention my nebulae passed off as other people's work, so believe me, I know what it feels like.
At the same time - I always learn from Max' documentation when a new version comes out. I learned from Onyx' docs when I update, or buy a new product - is it ripping off if I put my newfangled knowledge to good use?

~s

[dandelO]

Just to state; I would never buy a clipfile, nor plagiarize one in any render I published.

I believe in creation for creation's sake. On all of my renders I've published, all work has been original(barring model usage etc. where that's been credited. (here, I make an exception, because I'm sh*t at modelling ), and I would hope that all in this friendly community would be the same.

The ones I'd worry about stealing work/clips/.tgd's/etc. would be the silent ones who never post anywhere. I'd never post any files/projects I've shared here on DeviantART for example, people are keen to take in general, and give no credit if it makes them look cool, I've been subject to it and I'm not even selling it!
The TG truists here, I believe, wouldn't steal work from each other but, I still feel comfortable sharing Terragen work here, hell, you're a Terragener, you understand. eh?

It's still nice to see my planetery grass shader©(the one I come across most in public without credit) on someones site.
I know I've made it, even if nobody else does!



Unfortunately, it's pretty impossible to police that area and anyone, be it Frank et la gang, Planetside, or even Xfrog(although, Xfrog are pretty thorough and police-like in their approach to their product, and this is a good thing, mind,) can't be 100% effective in this area.

First off, to be a distributor/publisher you have to first accept that you are willingly supplying content, to anybody on the planet with internet access. Can you find all of the ones who steal that product, take them to court, win a suit? Nope. It must be accepted, and trusted that you will recieve profits over and above the losses to justify the purpose at all. 

[Mandrake]

"It's still nice to see my planetery grass shader©(the one I come across most in public without credit) on someones site.
I know I've made it, even if nobody else does!  "

Good one dandelO, I added this line to my Eagle lic., not that it means anything.


This model is to remain in TGO format, and is NOT to be modified or deconstructed in any form.

[Mohawk20]

Just to be clear, I applied a powerfractal to a green surface layer to make it look bumpy and a bit grass-like. Does that look like the 'planetary grass shader©'? If it does, how do you know it's yours or mine?
Just curious...

I pride myself in making all the scenes myself without clipfiles. I do use objects others made, because they look WAY better than anything I can make.

So if I make something that looks like someone else's clipfile, I'll just say now: I did not use your clipfile without crediting you.

[dandelO]

how do you know it's yours or mine?

You just know.

I just meant this as an example, although, I am pretty certain that when I see that particular shader-set in someone's stuff, I can tell. It's the colours/tones/patchiness factors/etc. When they're all put together it's like a fingerprint.
Obviously, colours and values can be changed and made completely different, it's when the raw shader is used I believe I can tell. I may be wrong, mind.

Clipfiles can't be copyrighted(although I'll still falsely abuse the copyright symbol when I want), it would really be a waste of time to even try, as it is now.
The talks about enclosing nodes in an un-editable parent node sound nice though...

[Mr_Lamppost]

I've seen that shader used often without any credit being given.  You are right; it is very distinctive.

[Mandrake]

Well your right and I've been guilty of that but I've said it so many times that the folks over at Ashunder no exactly where that came from.

[neuspadrin]

I rarely use other's clips, though NWDA has been getting me recently.  Also, dandelO's are always fun to poke around in.  I can't really recall using many in a full render as of recent without credit, but sometimes with clips its a tad easier to forget when giving credit.

i would always mean to give credit to other people's work, its just sometimes after a few days on an image you kinda forget what stayed in and what got cut, shifted, etc.

[Henry Blewer]

Often when I have made commercial productions, I gave credits at the end of the production. My work was licensed, but I gave credit to Newtek, for using Lightwave, and any other software and hardware used. This, according to my attorney, protected me from copyright infringement. So, if you use a clip file then give them credit.
For instance, Walli made some great plant models for use in Terragen 2. He asked to have credit for the plant models. I have also used Xfrog's sample pack, and an oak. I feel bad about the oak, because I downloaded it, but did not write down who made it. (I think it was Dandelo)
Anyway, it's simple to give people credit for their work (when you remember who did it). It does not diminish your work. It also gives the people who contributed to it a chance to point and say, "Hey, check it out! That's my... Cool!)

[dandelO]

Well your right and I've been guilty of that but I've said it so many times that the folks over at Ashunder no exactly where that came from.

I didn't mean you, K'. Besides, I've saw you post that grass and give credit, many times. And that's all I'd ever ask, a mention to get my (nick)name out and about in the world, know?

[dandelO]

I never made an oak. I think Mr.Miley did, he distributes some great vegetation models for free... http://www.gintdev.co.uk/mr-miley/tgos.html

Someone else too, I forget who though, but I do remember another oak tree that's been kicking around for a couple of years. If I remember I'll post...

[rcallicotte]

Insight - many (most, all?) fights are fueled by someone not giving the credit where credit is due.  Good thread.  Who started this one?  LOL