Inside a Deep Forest

Started by Tangled-Universe, October 06, 2009, 01:37:09 pm

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schmeerlap

Echo the plaudits above; an exceptional render. A wee section of it, for me, detracts from the rest of this beautiful scene, and that's where the fronds of the ferns (or it may be ivy, I'm not sure) high up on the cliff have lost all definition, and are reduced to green splodges. I know they are in semi shadow, but in my view they need to recover some of their detail.

John
I hope I realise I don't exist before I apparently die.

Henry Blewer

The problem with the painted shader only occurs when the project is reopened? It looses the rotation of the face it is painted on? That's curious... Perhaps a compute normal will solve this.
http://flickr.com/photos/njeneb/
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MacGyver

Congratulations from me also :) This is really one of the most asthonishing works that I have seen coming out of TG2 so far :D
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j meyer

Another nice Huisman! ;)
Really well done.

Tangled-Universe

Thanks again guys :)

Quote from: schmeerlap on October 07, 2009, 06:51:34 am
Echo the plaudits above; an exceptional render. A wee section of it, for me, detracts from the rest of this beautiful scene, and that's where the fronds of the ferns (or it may be ivy, I'm not sure) high up on the cliff have lost all definition, and are reduced to green splodges. I know they are in semi shadow, but in my view they need to recover some of their detail.

John


Thanks John :)
Yes you're right about those mosses (they are supposed to be mosses). Though I tried to mask them out with a painted shader I wasn't succesful. Somehow the mask is not being stored or it is working half. Like the mask is not "bright" enough.

Anyhow, regarding their loss of definition and detail: That's very tricky and hard to solve. Maybe even higher GI settings might give it better lighting, I doubt it will look that much better anyway. The main reason it looks weird is just because it is on flat slopes of the strata which you can't see from this pov. If you have suggestions on the lighting I'm happy to hear them, I have yet not ideas.

Quote from: njeneb on October 07, 2009, 07:50:33 am
The problem with the painted shader only occurs when the project is reopened? It looses the rotation of the face it is painted on? That's curious... Perhaps a compute normal will solve this.


Hmmm...it should be a compute terrain because the painted shader probably needs texture coordinates, but besides that where would you add this compute normal/normal then? The painted shader has no input, so it is not linked somewhere within the network. I think the painted shader paints on the final normals and texture coordinates of the final shader. If it does on the last compute terrain then it would make sense to use it as last shader and then start painting.
This theory needs confirmation from PS then.

Henry Blewer

I don't use the paint shader. It's very useful, but I am concentrating on other things Terragen 2 now. I just thought that computing a normal, or terrain might keep it properly oriented. Could it be that since it is used many for populations, it works best on the x and z planes?
http://flickr.com/photos/njeneb/
Forget Tuesday; It's just Monday spelled with a T

dandelO

October 07, 2009, 10:49:04 am #36 Last Edit: October 07, 2009, 10:50:50 am by dandelO
QuoteThe painted shader has no input, ...


Huh? Every shader node seems to have an input , and also some non shader nodes. Or, do you just mean it isn't taking any inputs from the rest of the scene? Sorry if I'm mixed up.
So far as I can tell(bear in mind my brain is somewhat skewed at the best of times), the painted shader doesn't require any terrain or normal calculations, it just seems to paint on top of whatever surface is directly beneath the brush. That's why it is able to be directly painted into any preview window, even in 3D. It basically acts only as a mask, although, you could create a completely painted render from it aswell, a shocking one, mind you! ;)

I'm sure I just have the wrong end of the stick from your post, though, Martin. Or maybe the painted shader has no input in the version of TG you are using?

cyphyr

Just a thought, prob daft as usual, but is your painter shader set to "Plan Y" or "3D"? At a guess plan Y (usually most useful for object distribution) will be not so good on vertical and near vertical surfaces. I'd go for a 3d projection or try a plan x or plan z...
Richard :)
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otakar

Frakking amazing! When you look at the low-res version, it looks almost perfect. The full size version reveals the flaws already discussed, although I don't want to be too critical, just trying offer some constructive feedback. What I am thinking is this: The scene looks fairly lush. Maybe some reflectivity on the ivy leaves would work. The lit parts looks fantastic, while the plants in the shade look flat. Flooding the scene with light would surely destroy the atmosphere, so that can't be the solution. I marvel at the foreground. Maybe you should add some mushrooms where those clumps are now :)

choronr

One of your best Martin! This place reminds me very much of the 'Oak Creek Canyon' just north of Sedona, Arizona ...fire up your printer; this is a keeper!

rcallicotte

Wow.  I know you like detailed analysis or comments, but I can't give you any.  Just - WOW. 
So this is Disney World.  Can we live here?

ra

Very impressive and detailled work! Great!
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Tangled-Universe

Quote from: dandelO on October 07, 2009, 10:49:04 am
QuoteThe painted shader has no input, ...


Huh? Every shader node seems to have an input , and also some non shader nodes. Or, do you just mean it isn't taking any inputs from the rest of the scene? Sorry if I'm mixed up.
So far as I can tell(bear in mind my brain is somewhat skewed at the best of times), the painted shader doesn't require any terrain or normal calculations, it just seems to paint on top of whatever surface is directly beneath the brush. That's why it is able to be directly painted into any preview window, even in 3D. It basically acts only as a mask, although, you could create a completely painted render from it aswell, a shocking one, mind you! ;)

I'm sure I just have the wrong end of the stick from your post, though, Martin. Or maybe the painted shader has no input in the version of TG you are using?


The nodes have been designed with inputs, but that doesn't mean they always really have one or use it. The "get position" node for example also has an input but it has no function.

Quote from: cyphyr on October 07, 2009, 11:40:23 am
Just a thought, prob daft as usual, but is your painter shader set to "Plan Y" or "3D"? At a guess plan Y (usually most useful for object distribution) will be not so good on vertical and near vertical surfaces. I'd go for a 3d projection or try a plan x or plan z...
Richard :)


Oh damn man...now I see how and what :) haha...this is funny and emberassing at the same time :P I have never touched the "transform" tab within the painted shader...lol :)

So to answer your question: I painted in the standard/default mode which is plan Y and now I also see which options you have regarding painting on "final position" or "position in terrain/texture" so that's also an answer on njeneb's thoughts at the same time :)

Thanks a lot Richard for starting up my brain ;D

schmeerlap

October 08, 2009, 06:25:53 am #43 Last Edit: October 08, 2009, 06:29:08 am by schmeerlap
Quote from: Tangled-Universe on October 07, 2009, 09:08:58 am
Anyhow, regarding their loss of definition and detail: That's very tricky and hard to solve. Maybe even higher GI settings might give it better lighting, I doubt it will look that much better anyway. The main reason it looks weird is just because it is on flat slopes of the strata which you can't see from this pov. If you have suggestions on the lighting I'm happy to hear them, I have yet not ideas.


Now that you have more options available to you with the Painted shader, you could probably erase the green blotchy moss from that cliff face and redeploy them there as a separate pop (if you still want them there) on the vertical plane of the cliff with either the 3d, X, or Z projection. And as they will be a separate pop you could play with Diffuse and Translucency values or even Displacement in its Default shader to try and bring out more detail without affecting the rest of the moss. Moving the sun is probably not an option as you have probably got it an optimum position for the rest of your scene. Not being a purist I won't hesitate to make post TG2 adjustments (if all else fails 3d-wise) to simulate detail if I feel it is needed. I suppose it depends where one draws one's post adjustments line. I did five minutes distressing on those blotches in PS to break them up a bit. Whether you think that resulted in an improvement . . . who knows.

John
I hope I realise I don't exist before I apparently die.

mr-miley

Weeeellll, its alright, I suppose, OK for a beginner......

;D


Holy Crap, who am I kidding. Possibly the best TG2 render I have ever seen.... ever..... Definately one to post on the CG Society site.

Miles
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