Intersect Underlying

Started by kevnar, May 05, 2010, 08:31:15 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

kevnar

Tell me everything there is to know about this feature. All I've found in my own search was a short video displaying the different settings.

Thanks.

Dune

Is this an order? If you search for it, there are hundreds of topics, mentioning it... I suggest doing another thorough search first.

FrankB

#2
It is not easy to explain. I don't think it has ever been properly explained by Planetside, but this may not be true because there is a chance I have just missed it.

The way I would explain it, by making certain assumptions is the following: if you create multiple surface on top of each other, such as surface layer 1 followed by surface layer 2, and use intersect underlying on surface layer 2, what it does is that it either raises or "presses down" surface layer 2 where it exists, *relativ to surface layer 1*. The feature takes into account the shape of your underlying terrain from surface layer 1. So instead of just dropping surface layer 2 onto it (like it would without intersect underlying), you tell surface layer 2 to "intersect" with that terrain. You can (so to speak) "pull" the underlying terrain through surface 2, or opposite.

Simplified and probably not entirely correct, but maybe helping with imagining it: think about any terrain, and surface layer one 1 coloring it in grey completely. Now, a white surface layer 2 with intersect underlying and smoothing enabled will assume a softened, more simplified shape of your terrain. Because it assumes a simplified, smoother terrain, surface layer 2 will not exactly sit on top of the grey. It will instead intersect in certain places. So where surface layer 2 shows, it will look like it's filling terrain depressions, or adding to terrain rises. And with the parameters, you tell it how much it will raise compared to surface layer 1, for example, or whether to prefer rises or depressions.

Sorry this might all be wrong, but from observing what it actually looks like when using it, this is what I assume it does.

Regards,
Frank

domdib

I presume you've seen this?
http://www.nwdanet.com/terragen-tutorials/7-intersect-underlying-explained.html

EDIT: I guess that was the short video you were talking about. Ooops! I'm pretty sure that Tangled_Universe has also given an explanation somewhere on the forums

FrankB

yeah, but with all explanations so far is a lot of guessing involved for this particular feature. For myself, I figured that can get sort of across what it does by carefully animating the parameters, hence I made the videos.

Tangled-Universe

#5
My way of understanding/thinking is:

The function uses the smoothed texture coordinates for this, generated by the last compute terrain prior to the surface layer using the intersect underlying.
These smoothed texture coordinates allow for smoothing a surface layer using the smoothing setting in the last tab. The scale of this smoothing effect is determined by the patch size of the compute terrain before the surface layer.

Actually that's the only part I'm pretty sure about :)

I think the intersect underlying algorithm tries to look up how the texture coordinates vary over the terrain and measures where the displacements "flatten", being it either a "top" or "valley" of the displacement, by assessing the "flow" of the terrain.
The intersect underlying adds displacement to the parts which cause rises in the terrain or adds displacement on features which cause depressions in the terrain. Displacement intersection does both and smooths out the transition of displacement between rises and depression. The amount and scale of this smoothing is controlled with the smoothing setting.

I always try to imagine this like the terrain is shaped like a sinus and that the tops of the sinus-shape represent the "rises" and the bottoms the "depression". The intersect underlying can emphasize these features.

In case of displacement intersection the settings for shift and minimal shift determine how much displacement you add. A shift value for an overall thickness and a min shift for the minimal value.
Further I tink that the intersection zone determines how fast the intersection "shifts" and how fast the shift and min. shift vary over the terrain.
Smaller values (<0,05 or so) give smoother results whereas larger values more rougher.

Favor rises: adds displacement on raised features
Favor depressions: adds displacement on depressed features of the terrain, kind of "fills" depressions.
Displacement intersection: smoothens out the rises and depression completely when using a big shift value. Or creates an intersecting layer between rises and depressions. So in a sinus-landscape there would be a horizontal line going through the middle of the sinus-shape. You can control the height of the horizontal line using the shift values and the "horizontal-ity" with the intersection zone.

Ghehe, I always feel a bit emberassed when thinking out loud like this. It might be complete rubbish/non-sense :) Anyway, with these simple thoughts I can make it work for me, a little though.

Yes the intersect underlying feature is still puzzling and this is not the first time people are wondering what it does and how.
Perhaps asking Matt again for an explanation might help. Tried that before, but I think he missed those.
So Matt, if you find some time could you enlighten us on a description of the feature, it's parameters with a bit of guidance how to use?
Thanks in advance.

Cheers,
Martin

gregsandor

As Dune stated, use the search feature.  This has been discussed before.

domdib

Just to clarify - what Martin means by "sinus" is what a native English speaker would normally understand by "sine wave" This Wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinus shows that this is because the Latin for "sine" is indeed "sinus"

Rhalph

Can anyone draw a scheme (schema?) ?
A picture is worth a thousand words :)

Tangled-Universe

I've edited my story slightly, hopefully a bit more clear now. Nonetheless it could still be nonsense, lol! ;D

Quote from: Rhalph on May 06, 2010, 08:18:57 AM
Can anyone draw a scheme (schema?) ?
A picture is worth a thousand words :)

Good idea. I'll see what I can do tonight, but perhaps it would best if Matt would explain this.
I can draw a picture of my ideas, but there's a big chance it will become trash after Matt visited it :)