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General => Terragen Discussion => Topic started by: Tangled-Universe on December 21, 2012, 09:36:54 AM

Title: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: Tangled-Universe on December 21, 2012, 09:36:54 AM
(http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/334/5/a/zhangjiajie_in_vue_by_vejza-d5mo7zz.jpg)

http://vejza.deviantart.com/#/d5mo7zz

This is created in Vue10 using a displaced metablob.
The fractal displacements are baked into polygons, so essentially it's a rendered model.

I'm pretty confident that fractal-wise TG2 can do these type of displacements.
However, as many users here may know, creating vertical basic shapes as a starting point is nearly impossible, if possible at all.

Imagine creating similar relatively small scale assets like these and move them around in your scene where you like.
Images you see when you google for "Zhangjiajie" would be possible in TG2. How totally awesome would that be.

I may have some experience with TG2, but I do not consider myself very creative, so perhaps somebody can figure out a way to get a column shape which you AND can displace nicely (that's a pain in TG2 to displace vertical slopes) AND also can populate.
Especially the latter excludes the use of a modelled base mesh.
In contrary to Vue, TG2 can populate imported models.

So who's up for a challenge? ;)

Cheers,
Martin
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: mhaze on December 21, 2012, 11:20:46 AM
I thought I had file doing something similar using a SSS but on checking I can't get lateral displacement will have to play some more - I'm sure it is posible
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: Dune on December 21, 2012, 12:00:41 PM
I'm sure it's possible, Martin. If I weren't so occupied, I'd take up that challenge  ::)
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: mhaze on December 21, 2012, 12:04:58 PM
I have the basis but I want to work on the displacements.  You can use SSS and either place them individually or using a shader array
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: Tangled-Universe on December 21, 2012, 12:21:25 PM
I'm happy to see at which stage you're at now Mick.
Can you show a small image of it and post the tgd?
I, or others, can work on it in return and then we can see if we can pull it off with combined efforts.

Cheers,
Martin
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: mhaze on December 21, 2012, 12:43:47 PM
Improved version previous one removed
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: mhaze on December 21, 2012, 02:12:27 PM
I'm having big problems with displacement
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: Themodman101 on December 21, 2012, 02:46:32 PM
What if I created the base model using Zbrush in which im very fluent. And then put it into TG2. Or rather I give it to one of you guys. Would you be able to do it on a .obj?
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: swissAdA on December 21, 2012, 03:23:27 PM
hi
Maybe something like this?
[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: Tangled-Universe on December 21, 2012, 04:46:13 PM
Mick, nice efforts so far. Obviously getting a tall column isn't the big problem, but as you stated displacing them properly is a nightmare.
Your low quality render obfuscates some other problems as well.
However, this is a good starting point, so I saved the file and after a fresh sleep I'll see if I can work a bit on it.

Quote from: Themodman101 on December 21, 2012, 02:46:32 PM
What if I created the base model using Zbrush in which im very fluent. And then put it into TG2. Or rather I give it to one of you guys. Would you be able to do it on a .obj?

That would be cool to see of course. Only problem is that TG2 can't populate imported objects :(
Also, a very detailed ZBrush mesh would probably take very long to render. Probably a lot longer than a (localized) procedural solution within TG2.
But if you feel up to it than I'm more than interested to see where you can take it!
For instance, you could model it with trees on it, ultimately.

Quote from: swissAdA on December 21, 2012, 03:23:27 PM
hi
Maybe something like this?
[attachimg=1]

Yessss, getting there slowly :)

The symmetrical features can be fixed by tweaking the fractals and getting those strata like rock features from the reference should be do-able too.
Can you show us how the setup?

This one also nicely shows the problems TG2 gives when trying this. There are lots of torn/stretched surfaces.
Regardless of how dense you calculate your terrain/normals, you'll never seem to be able to get nice smooth surfaces without stretching and tearing.
There MUST be a way though!
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: Jo Kariboo on December 21, 2012, 05:13:40 PM
Wow! Very nice swissAdA.
I have any idea to create this.
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: mhaze on December 21, 2012, 06:53:01 PM
A lot closer than I was
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: Dune on December 22, 2012, 02:23:16 AM
By the way, Mick, I looked at your file and you don't need to merge the simple shapes, you can stack them. The white (change values below or above 1) can be used to give each more or less impact.
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: mhaze on December 22, 2012, 04:07:42 AM
Cheers Dune, you're right and in fact stacking them solves several problems that arise from the merge node.

Everybody, the last file I put up, goes along way to solving the displacement problems. Getting square noise though is beyond me.

Mick
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: swissAdA on December 22, 2012, 04:58:58 AM
Quote from: Tangled-Universe on December 21, 2012, 04:46:13 PM

Can you show us how the setup?


yes.
the color and Displacement is a little modification from Wetbanana s clipfile from the File Sharing.
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: Hetzen on December 22, 2012, 07:52:27 AM
The problem is that TG lays a texture grid over the top of any displacement to generate texture co-ordinates, almost like laying a blanket over your terrain, and only looking down on the undulations.

If Matt could work out a Voxel way of defining texture co-ordinates, a lot of problems would be solved, like slope populations thinning out, creating truely square forms, stretched noise on hard slopes etc.
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: Dune on December 22, 2012, 07:55:46 AM
Try smooth terrain and small patch size in the compute terrain...
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: Hetzen on December 22, 2012, 08:21:42 AM
Quote from: Dune on December 22, 2012, 07:55:46 AM
Try smooth terrain and small patch size in the compute terrain...

That's the work around, but you still see the issues described in my earlier post. As anything gets near to being verticle, theres not enough points in the patch size to fully cover the facets.
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: mhaze on December 22, 2012, 08:25:52 AM
That's very clearly put Hetzen, it's made some of the problems I've had more understandable.
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: mhaze on December 22, 2012, 09:46:39 AM
Right I give up.  This is as good as I can get.
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: mhaze on December 22, 2012, 10:20:42 AM
For those who may not understand whats happening here and to make the problem clearer, I've made these three quick images based on the tgd above.

The first shows how textures are distorted on a vertical face
The second shows how using smooth step adds some slope to the sides and enables a better texture
The third shows what I call the tablecloth effect. Imagine a cloth is draped over the SSS you get wrinkles at the corners stretching up in a inverted v.
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: Hetzen on December 22, 2012, 10:23:10 AM
Good effort Mike. I had very similar problems with the Wyvorm's Realm pic I started. I had all sorts of weird population projection angles over my form to try and solve some of these issues. I realised that TG is not really the program to do these sorts of things. Still, it's fun trying.
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: Tangled-Universe on December 22, 2012, 10:43:30 AM
Quote from: Hetzen on December 22, 2012, 07:52:27 AM
The problem is that TG lays a texture grid over the top of any displacement to generate texture co-ordinates, almost like laying a blanket over your terrain, and only looking down on the undulations.

If Matt could work out a Voxel way of defining texture co-ordinates, a lot of problems would be solved, like slope populations thinning out, creating truely square forms, stretched noise on hard slopes etc.

Exactly why I named this thread this way.
Despite that the noise functions are 3D internally, in the end they are in fact 2D or 2.5D at its best.
It also explains why stretching/compressing noise in Y often gives weird or no results as it's just projections of a 3D noise function.
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: Tangled-Universe on December 22, 2012, 10:45:55 AM
Quote from: mhaze on December 22, 2012, 09:46:39 AM
Right I give up.  This is as good as I can get.

Thanks Mick. That really looks more than decent. Why don't you populate it and try to finish it? :)
I haven't had the time today to dive into your setups and see if I can take it further from here.
I'll post my results as soon as I have them!

Cheers,
Martin
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: Tangled-Universe on December 22, 2012, 10:49:47 AM
From the same guy. The example I showed was a product of his entry for the Vue Environment Competition. This is his entry:

(http://static.e-onsoftware.com//showcase/competition/2012/images/environment/56433.jpg)
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: bla bla 2 on December 22, 2012, 11:47:14 AM
Facile, après on peut multiplier le nombre de simple shape shader par le node mutli shader, en faisant copier/coller, plus cas rassembler un peu partout et ajouter un cloud layer. :)

Easy, then we can multiply the number of simple shape the shader node mutli shader, by copy / paste, if more reassemble around and add a cloud layer. :)

(google translate)
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: bla bla 2 on December 22, 2012, 12:10:17 PM
Je peux pas faire plus de deux tours.  ???
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: Jack on December 23, 2012, 01:58:04 AM
Remember this from the tg2 gallery?

(http://www.planetside.co.uk/images/phocagallery/thumbs/phoca_thumb_l_displacement.jpg)

who did this again?
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: Tangled-Universe on December 23, 2012, 07:47:09 AM
That's from Marcello Deschino a.k.a. as Martchi.
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: bla bla 2 on December 23, 2012, 02:14:42 PM
Et, voilà.  :)
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: Simius Strabus on December 24, 2012, 02:39:14 PM
I used the tower10.tgd from mhaze here, somewhat modified and used a painted shader for the displacement combined with the simple-shape-shaders.
Results are okay.
Used Xfrogs Coulter Pine here, too.

Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: mhaze on December 24, 2012, 04:23:53 PM
Nice image, love those clouds!
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: TheBadger on December 25, 2012, 01:43:18 AM
More on this subject please.
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: mhaze on December 25, 2012, 04:38:26 AM
See Image sharing
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: bla bla 2 on December 25, 2012, 05:26:47 AM
Et, ceci.
;D
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: mhaze on December 25, 2012, 05:31:11 AM
Good one - which trees did you use?
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: bla bla 2 on December 25, 2012, 05:45:03 AM
C'est une plante du logiciel Speedtree 6.  ;)

It is a plant of software Speedtree 6   ;)
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: Kadri on December 30, 2012, 10:11:47 PM

Jo Kariboo's TGD file with a basic change ( http://www.planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=15451.msg150185#msg150185) .

Would be good with less nodes for faster rendering if possible.
Nothing artistic here just a test for you to carry on if you want guys and girls...


[attachurl=1]

Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: choronr on December 31, 2012, 12:37:34 AM
Like the tower of Babylon ...nice one Kadri.
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: Dune on December 31, 2012, 02:34:08 AM
Good one, Kadri. Now you should add some vultures...
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: Tangled-Universe on December 31, 2012, 05:30:23 AM
Thanks for sharing that Kadri :)
That looks like a really good base to get started with.
After the holidays I'll dive into this subject again.

Cheers,
Martin
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: Jo Kariboo on December 31, 2012, 09:57:44 AM
A nice one Kadri. I like the altitude effect !!!
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: mhaze on December 31, 2012, 11:45:32 AM
Good effort, you're getting closer but the displacements are still not quite the same.
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: TheBadger on December 31, 2012, 01:23:33 PM
The problem is the scale. If you remember schmeerlap's tower tut, it was next to impossible to get the displacement on a real world scale rock spire. It looks like the same issues here.

Kadri,
How tall is the spire in your image? Can you get the same displacements on a structure that is 1/4 the size?
If so this will work. if not...?
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: bla bla 2 on December 31, 2012, 04:14:28 PM
Il faut mettre le shader distance, pour changer la grosseur.

You have  to put the shader distance, to change the size.
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: TheBadger on December 31, 2012, 05:10:19 PM
I am no master of this at all.
But I found I could only have a little success trying to get the same displacement that is easily applied to a large spire, on a small one.
Here is the displacements from the tower tut applied to a much more real scale spire. As you can see it works, but not as nicely as the giant monolith.

[attach=1]

So I am following this thread with great hope. I have a lot of ideas a solution would help me produce.
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: mhaze on January 02, 2013, 07:10:03 AM
My final effort, couldn't get low angle godrays to work
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: rcallicotte on January 03, 2013, 12:23:27 PM
Nice, Mhaze!
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: masonspappy on January 03, 2013, 05:31:24 PM
You pulled this off quite nicely!
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: TheBadger on January 03, 2013, 07:04:27 PM
Looks good. But how tall are those towers in TG space?
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: TheBadger on January 03, 2013, 08:01:38 PM
can someone tell me how to replace the Crater node's circle shape with a square shape?
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: Dune on January 04, 2013, 03:41:58 AM
You can't. But aren't square craters not a bit too modern? You can always make one using simple shapes, that's not hard at all.
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: mhaze on January 04, 2013, 04:41:34 AM
Hi Badger, they are between two and three hundred feet.  I'll post the tgd sometime later today.  BTW Dune stacking the simple shapes causes some interesting interactions between them.
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: Dune on January 05, 2013, 03:01:11 AM
Yes, but unchecking the black color also influences things!
Title: Re: I wish TG2 could do this:
Post by: TheBadger on January 05, 2013, 03:25:23 AM
Quote from: Dune on January 04, 2013, 03:41:58 AM
You can't. But aren't square craters not a bit too modern? You can always make one using simple shapes, that's not hard at all.

Thats to bad. I thought that you could get better shapes in the spire/towers by starting with a square rather than a circle shape. But yes I figured you could use a shape shader, but I liked the idea of having all of the crater nodes controls right there.

Ha ha, your joke gave me a funny idea, Ulco. Probably everyone reading this had the same idea. But maybe someone will do it.

@mhaze
Cool
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