Hi there,
I have recently purchased Terragen2+Animation and it's the latter which gives me a hard time.
I have been searching the site for info on animation in particular and would welcome a distinct animation area within the forum as well.
I have got the following questions regarding animation in Terragen2Deep + Animation:
1. How do you animate a camera (I have only managed to animate a meteorite like rock but couldn't get the render camera to follow that rock, whenever I moved or rotated the camera in the preview window the corresponding values in the parameter and settings pane didn't change at all), which camera can you use for animation?
2. Is there a camera path option in the terragen2 deep + animation edition?
3. What is the default frame rate and how/where can you adjust it?
4. How do render the animation, is there a command line render option and is it similar to the Autodesk Maya option for example?
I am really glad that I found Terragen2 and look forward to seeing more features coming out to enhance this amazing piece of software.
Thanks
Alex
Hi Alexia,
you can animate the camera by setting animation keys for the camera's position and rotation.
However, moving the camera in the 3D preview doesn't really change the camera's parameters UNLESS you hit "set camera" (with the button below the 3D preview). Once you hit "set camera", you can then set the animation keys (position and rotation) in the camera's node dialog.
There is no frame rate as such, TG2 will just output the number of images in your animation that you have specified. What you would do is set the camera e.g. for frame number 0, the move the camera to the next position, and make this position i.e. frame number 25, then hit set camera again, then set an animation key.. You'll need to compile these to a movie, and set your frame rate then. So considering these 25 frames, you can have a 1 second animation at 25 fps, or half a second for fps 50, ....
cheers,
Frank
PS: I'm no way near experienced or anything in animation, there are many others here who could tell you more about this. But in essence, the above mentioned steps should work.
actually it is 15 images per second in TG2.
The playback rate of the pre-view may be 15fps (I dont know) ~ but since Terragen dose'nt actually make animations itself, just sequances of images, its not really relavent. You will set your frame rate in your compositing package.
:)
Richard
Hi,
thanks a lot for your input.
I'm going to do a composite with Maya Models inside a Terragen fly-through.
So basically it's all dead and desert on earth you see a close up inside a deep canyon. At the bottom there are a couple of toxic waste drums exposed by time and tide.
From there the camera would head up to the surface of the planet which is desert/rock like pan over the surface and continue it's journey to the outer space to get a full view on the planet (I have seen a similar movie on the Planetside website, cool stuff!!).
The camera would still be moving away yet facing the planet. Suddenly a flying object passes by and the camera turns around to follow the object back to the planet. The object travels at tremendous speed and is heading for a giant gate like structure in the middle of nowhere and dissapears inside the gate, into another dimension (akin to the gate in "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy" movie). That's it.
Cheeers
Alex
Quote from: cyphyr on February 13, 2010, 07:08:10 AM
The playback rate of the pre-view may be 15fps (I dont know) ~ but since Terragen dose'nt actually make animations itself, just sequances of images, its not really relavent. You will set your frame rate in your compositing package.
:)
Richard
yes, but click on the play button in TG2 and you got 15 fps.
and if you batch the renders without changing rate, you have 15 fps.
and i can assure you it is "relevant" when you need to do a 20 seconds animation with pre-definite speed ^^
Sorry to hijack :) but I dont get it. If you end up with a folder with lots of seperate images in it then how is there a frame rate.
The only I can make sense of what your saying (my brain, no offence intended) is that you using a batch renderer that outputs directly to a movie file (avi, mov, mpg) or that your using Terragens preview to test your anim.
Please explain :)
Richard
yes of course :)
Let's say I need a 20 seconds animation. and I need that my cam moves errr... 10 meters per second.
So that means that my cam will do 200 meters in those 20 seconds, and that will be in 300 frames.
If I now transform my 300 frames in another software to be in 25 fps, the cam will still do the 200 meters but only in 12 seconds.
That's why I thought it was something important. Maybe I am wrong and missing something but as I am working on some animation for 3 weeks now and knowing that I'll need to transform it in 25 fps, I'll be glad if you explain me where I am wrong, because that could be of some help here :)
I dont think either of us is wrong ;)
I'm used to using Lightwave for animating, I set my scene up in TG, export to LW, animate the camera, objects there and then import all that data back to TG. Of course in LW you can set the frame rate to what ever you need.
I also think we work from opposite directions. I want to make an animation of say 20 seconds, I know right away that I'll need 500 frames @25fps. It seems that your working with much tighter constraints than I am, maybe that is it. :)
Richard
Quote from: cyphyr on February 13, 2010, 09:42:08 AM
It seems that your working with much tighter constraints than I am, maybe that is it. :)
money for the render farm ? ^^
ok i understand and you're right, none of us was wrong ! good enough !
I need to try lightwave... does it have a trial version ?
By constraints I ment that your needing the camera to travel a defined distance in a defined time. A render farm would be very sweet :)
Lightwave dose have a discovery mode, limited poly count, watermarks, limited render settings etc. Thinking about it you should be able to do all your camera moves and exports in the discovery version.
Good luck
Richard
thanks cyphyr ! and sorry to AlexelA for the hijacking thread ;)
No bother,
it's as educational as it is funny to follow your ping-pong argument but why do you Cyphyr import your composite back into Terragen after stitching it together in Lightwave!?
Alex
My usual workflow is as follows.
Firstly I create the terrain I'm going to be using in TG, then I export it as a LWO mesh and load that into LW. Here I can use all of Ligtwaves animation tools and precisely add in any models that need to be specifically placed. The camera animation can then be exported out of Lightwave in the .chan format. This is then imported back into Terragen along with any models needed. Now all thats needed is to render.
The reason for all this is that the animation controls are that much better in LW. I expect that once the animation module is finnihed much of this process will be superfluous.
:)
Richard
Hi,
I have just been to the NewTek website to have a quick peek regarding Lightwave which I have never heard of before. If I got this right it's a 3D app. just like Maya. If yes than I would go the same way as you only with Maya and agree with you on the animation capabilities of Terragen2, but on the Planetside website there is a screen shot of a mountain with a camera animation path around it which I can't find in my version of Terragen. I think that would make camera movement much smoother rather than doing it from key frame to key frame.
Alex
You can animate in TG perfectly, if you have the animation version. Move the camers to your start position, press "set camera" (think that's what the buttons called, the left most beneath the preview window), go to your camera panel, click on the small SA (Set animation key) button on the left by the position and rotation coordinates. Thats your first key frame set. Now move the frame slider to a new frame, say frame 30 and move the camera, "set camera" again, Set animation key again. Keep doing this untill you've finished your camera path. Hope I've explained it ok :)
Richard
There is no "frame rate" in TG2 since it just renders out a sequence of images. Frame rate is defined when you assemble the images into a movie, not before. You can make up any relation of frame rate to parameter change that you want, so long as you use that same relationship when you do eventually turn it into a movie, e.g. you decide you want to do 30fps, and you want to move 30 meters per second, means you need to move the camera 1 meter per frame in TG2.
Animating the camera is fairly simple, but you do need to remember to press the "Copy this view to the current render camera" (formerly known as "set camera") button. This will take the coordinates that you have moved the camera to in the 3D preview and "set" them as the coordinates for the actual camera. You can then set a keyframe with the animation button. Be sure to move the timeline to the next desired keyframe location before adjusting the camera and setting another keyframe.
When you do animate the camera, if your viewpoint is right you will be able to see the camera path in orange. Note though that if you're only viewing the scene from your keyframed camera, since it is likely traveling forward, you may never see the path in that view as it will be behind you...
If you have any other questions, let us know.
- Oshyan
lasty, the video that I made yesterday might help you understand how it's done in the GUI: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4ULGYzthmc
Quote from: Oshyan on February 15, 2010, 04:35:27 AM
There is no "frame rate" in TG2 since it just renders out a sequence of images. Frame rate is defined when you assemble the images into a movie, not before. You can make up any relation of frame rate to parameter change that you want, so long as you use that same relationship when you do eventually turn it into a movie, e.g. you decide you want to do 30fps, and you want to move 30 meters per second, means you need to move the camera 1 meter per frame in TG2.
- Oshyan
hehehe right and easy with 30fps and 30m/s ^^
what i meant Oshyan is this : render 100 frames and bink it without touching anything and you get 15 fps. now if you want 25fps (like in TV for example), you have to calculate everything from that basis. and as i said, it is easy with 30fps and 30m/s but you must admit that it is a bit more complicated for 25fps and 10m/s ;)
Quote from: Seth on February 15, 2010, 11:01:04 AM
...
hehehe right and easy with 30fps and 30m/s ^^
what i meant Oshyan is this : render 100 frames and bink it without touching anything and you get 15 fps.
now if you want 25fps (like in TV for example), you have to calculate everything from that basis. and as i said,
it is easy with 30fps and 30m/s but you must admit that it is a bit more complicated for 25fps and 10m/s ;)
Seth maybe i get it wrong what you said . But from what you wrote i think you are a little confused about this.
Say you have 100 frames rendered (100 images) if you make this as a Pal video in an video editor you get 4 second video (25 fps).
With NTSC you get 3.3 second (30 fps) . With movie settings (24 fps) you get 4.16 second video.
If you want a HD video with 60 fps you get 1.66 second video.
Thus say you travel in 100 frames from a river to a mountain . With 100 in hand the speed you get there with 100 frames will vary.
Some will slow some will very fast. In the end you must know in what format your end video will (and fps of course)
and make your decision so that it is has the speed you want accordingly. Lıke an character animator makes decision of the moving parts of an actor accordingly.
More you make animation the more you will get the feeling how much images(frames) you need for a given animation(path) and speed .
Edit: Sometimes the best is to make the keyframe on the beginning of something and the last. Then choose the time to get there .
Say 5 second. Then in which format you want it . Say Pal (25 fps) . So you have to make 125 images to go there in 5 seconds.
If you want the same animation in NTSC (30 fps) you have to render 150 frames to get 5 second video .
Then make the other keyframes accordingly in between , if necessary .
Cheers.
Kadri.
i am not confused about it at all and i understood what Oshyan stated ^^
the only thing i said was that when you hit the play button inside TG2, it moves at the speed of 15fps :)
and sorry to say that again but it is not very easy for some specific work (and i am working on an anmation for quite some weeks now as i said earlier).
So, i know i need 25 fps, i know that i need to move my cam x meters/s but you must admit that the preview playing 15fps is not very useful to have a good idea of what the definitive animation will look like :)
plus, if i need a calculator to know how many meters in TG2 i need to move my cam to get a specific distance in 25fps... that is not easy neither ^^
maybe, we could have a little tool to change the speed of the preview... it is really a pain in the ass to render more than 300 frames to check what it look like in 25 fps, believe me on that.
moving from a mountain to a river is not the problem here but just imagine moving from flowers to flowers or tree to tree... slomo or anything like specific camera moves ;)
Quote from: Seth on February 15, 2010, 01:11:15 PM
i am not confused about it at all and i understood what Oshyan stated ^^
the only thing i said was that when you hit the play button inside TG2, it moves at the speed of 15fps :)
and sorry to say that again but it is not very easy for some specific work (and i am working on an anmation for quite some weeks now as i said earlier).
So, i know i need 25 fps, i know that i need to move my cam x meters/s but you must admit that the preview playing 15fps is not very useful to have a good idea of what the definitive animation will look like :)
plus, if i need a calculator to know how many meters in TG2 i need to move my cam to get a specific distance in 25fps... that is not easy neither ^^
maybe, we could have a little tool to change the speed of the preview... it is really a pain in the ass to render more than 300 frames to check what it look like in 25 fps, believe me on that.
moving from a mountain to a river is not the problem here but just imagine moving from flowers to flowers or tree to tree... slomo or anything like specific camera moves ;)
OK , now i understand Seth , but maybe it will at least help other really confused ones :)
I feel your pain Seth . As a temporary solution i would render really small (very small and crude ) images to get the feel of the animation speed .
But i think that is what you use anyway :) I think Planetside has this in the oven . This has to be in the animation package really .
Cheers.
Kadri.
yep :) small render of crappy quality for testing ^^ but it would be useful to just watch the preview to have an idea of what your camera moves will look like ;)
:)
So all you're saying is the preview speed in TG2 is 15fps? That may be true, I'm not sure if that's the case or if it just moves as fast as your system can handle. The 15fps you see in Bink (for example) is a Bink setting, nothing to do with TG2.
- Oshyan
Hi Seth,
Looking at the code, it seems that TG2 tries to playback animations at 24 FPS. For various reasons (scene complexity, speed of your machine etc.) it may not achieve that speed.
Regards,
Jo
I have the free version ...It would be good if you can make a preview based on some selectable basic quality setting that you can record and play at a choosen FPS like a video .
I don't know how much of these are in there ?
Kadri.
Quote from: jo on February 15, 2010, 09:57:27 PM
Hi Seth,
Looking at the code, it seems that TG2 tries to playback animations at 24 FPS. For various reasons (scene complexity, speed of your machine etc.) it may not achieve that speed.
Regards,
Jo
okidoki ! thanks Jo ! ^^
very strange, i have a good quad core and the speed doesn't change with complexity of scene....
very very strange information...