Right, returning from severe obscurity to slightly less severe obscurity, I come with a pic and request for advice. Basically, I'm trying to recreate a dry, rocky plain with a fair bit of vegetation, with a storm front as the dramatic background to contrast against the arid and bright foreground. I've been doing a fair bit, but I'm just not quite liking the results yet. I feel the clouds aren't quite right, and probably need more to them, and probably extra cloud types to denote the approach of a storm front. In general though, I've gone for the dry grass and bush look, and even put in some cracked earth whilst I was at it too, since I had the advanced cracked earth clips on me. Still working on putting a layer of pebbles and rock debris, but so far, this is what I've put together so far in the pipeline.
So yeah, what can I do to improve this? The image I've provided has had a little postwork done (since I'm practising on the postwork side of things too), so feedback with that would be good too. Pull it apart, and what not. I might even provide the .tgd file if it is required for further examination. And yes, I've got rain going, since you can't have a storm and not have rain! :P
But yeah, give me your thoughts!
Very nice image , Bluefinger :)
For me there are only 2 things that i would say :
1 : The grass in the foreground don't look quite natural . Maybe more variation (in the object) or distribution ?
2 : Please render it bigger ;D
Very nice start.
You may want to billow-up the clouds a bit. Perhaps play with the scale and density.
Also, throw in some high altitude clouds.
I agree with MGebhart. In the cloud fractal, change the Noise flavor from Perlin to Perlin billows. Maybe increase the cloud density a bit, and add some high-altitude clouds. Perhaps add a moon (I love those, the more the better, up to a point) or a tree, maybe some kind of object...
Quote from: Kadri on April 17, 2010, 06:52:10 PM
Very nice image , Bluefinger :)
For me there are only 2 things that i would say :
1 : The grass in the foreground don't look quite natural . Maybe more variation (in the object) or distribution ?
2 : Please render it bigger ;D
For the distribution, I can do so, but the object is the long grass object I downloaded from Terragen.org. I'll see what I can do with that.
Quote from: MGebhart on April 17, 2010, 07:22:04 PM
Very nice start.
You may want to billow-up the clouds a bit. Perhaps play with the scale and density.
Also, throw in some high altitude clouds.
Feature scale, or the lead-in scale with adjustments to octaves? Maybe both even? And yes, high altitude cloud is a must. Looking at reference pictures, having some form of leading cloud is the usual scene for storm fronts.
Quote from: TheBlackHole on April 17, 2010, 07:41:30 PM
I agree with MGebhart. In the cloud fractal, change the Noise flavor from Perlin to Perlin billows. Maybe increase the cloud density a bit, and add some high-altitude clouds. Perhaps add a moon (I love those, the more the better, up to a point) or a tree, maybe some kind of object...
Alright. Billows it is!
Okay, redid the clouds and added a little extra high altitude stuff quite quickly. The billows turned out a little different, and thus I had to adjust the rain bit a little, and I probably could do with thickening the high altitude cloud cover. Nothing new on the objects side, but I'll have to leave that for tomorrow. So yeah, new image and cloud before I go off to bed.
So, is this getting anywhere? Or could I improve the cloud settings?
Bring the storm cloud a little closer and decrease the edge sharpness on the cirrus clouds. Decrease the coverage adjust too. Just so the cirrus doesn't look flat.
I think increasing the cloud quality settings would help - and moving the clouds closer would help increase the sense of menace.
Quote from: domdib on April 18, 2010, 05:26:54 AM
I think increasing the cloud quality settings would help - and moving the clouds closer would help increase the sense of menace.
At the moment, I'm not rendering at full quality settings so to keep preview render times quick enough. But I'll certainly go all out for the full render.
It's getting very nice. How did you do the rain, Y-stretched fractal in an extra cloud layer?
Quote from: Dune on April 18, 2010, 09:39:38 AM
It's getting very nice. How did you do the rain, Y-stretched fractal in an extra cloud layer?
Yes. It is a Y-stretched cumulus cloud layer, however, it has a low density with an increased edge sharpness so to still keep the rain streaks visible. The distribution of the rain is also mapped to the above storm cloud layer to ensure that the rain always appears under the storm clouds and also only on the inside parts where the cloud should be thicker. This is done by adjust the coverage adjust and colour contrast accordingly. Also, be sure to invert the profile of the cloud layer, since you want the 'rain' to be built downwards, not upwards.
Thanks, Bluefinger.
Right, since changing the scene settings with regards to the cloud layers, I've noticed a few problems with the way the rain cloud layer is being formed, so I've tried redoing the way I'm mapping the rain part. I'm trying to use colour adjust shaders to create a better mask for the rain distribution, feeding off from the density shader for the storm clouds. I'm having to constantly tweak the settings and rechecking the results, so a new image is slightly delayed until I'm happy with the rain distribution.
Here's at least a pic of the node network I've set up. Tried using some functions last night, but that didn't quite work out so I've stuck to using what I know.
Okay, update with pic time. The main storm clouds are looking a lot better, but I think there's still room for improvement. I'm not happy with the rain distribution, and generally the way it is looking. Do I lighten it? How can I improve the streaking so it doesn't sort of end halfway between the cloud and ground in some places. Any ideas on that front? Because it isn't far off from being done, if only I could tweak it better. The nodes haven't changed since the last update, but I'll try listing all the settings I've done with regards to setting up the rain cloud distribution. Maybe someone might be able to point out where to change things. But since everthing is connected, I'll try to summarise it as best as I can:
Main storm clouds density shader: Feature Scale 20000, Lead-in Scale 30000, Smallest Scale 10, Octaves 14.
Storm cloud shader: Cloud alt. 3744, Cloud depth 6000, Edge sharpness 10, Cloud density 0.2, Coverage Gamma 0.48, Cloud colour 0.618, Scattering colour, 0.05625
Distance shader: Far dist. 2750, Near dist. 2500
Colour adjust for blending mask: black point 0.5562, white point 0.59,
Rain density shader: Feature scale 3000, Lead-in Scale 30000, Smallest scale 10, Octaves 13, Contrast 2, Coverage adjust 0.2, Stretched on Y coords by a factor of 10.
Rain colour adjust shader: black point 0, white point 0.225
Rain cloud shader: Cloud alt. -100, Cloud depth 3500, Edge sharpness 17, cloud density 0.002, coverage adjust -0.2, cloud colour 0.3562, scattering colour 0.28, Inverted Profile, wispiness 0.5, softness 0.268, usually rendered at around quality 2.
So yeah, any suggestions on how I can tame this rain into something great?
This is the way I handled rain (and snow) as well, and also found it hard to get it exactly as I wished, as you see from attached images. For more streaky effect, I suggest using an extra power fractal with hard edges and simple shapes (low on octaves, high on contrast), as a blender. That's what I did. Ah, and another thing; I think the smallest size of your main cloud should be 50 or so, not as small as 10. They are very 'fractured'.
---Dune
The pics are looking amazing.
What I'd suggest regarding the last one is to increase the size of the features/details and reduce the contrast for the huge wall of clouds. It looks a little too noisy at the moment. This kind of cloud is usually more diffuse and smooth and tends to have larger features. Also a decrease of the edge sharpness could be advantageously since the cloud seems a little too definite for me.
Quote from: Dune on April 20, 2010, 03:23:00 AM
This is the way I handled rain (and snow) as well, and also found it hard to get it exactly as I wished, as you see from attached images. For more streaky effect, I suggest using an extra power fractal with hard edges and simple shapes (low on octaves, high on contrast), as a blender. That's what I did. Ah, and another thing; I think the smallest size of your main cloud should be 50 or so, not as small as 10. They are very 'fractured'.
---Dune
Good tip. The rain does look a little more definite, but now I just have to deal with the noise somehow. Also, your second picture example has great potential for a good pic, if you really nail the lighting and get some more interesting stuff thrown in there.
Also, with the feedback given, I've modified the clouds so the edge sharpness is about half of what it used to be, and with a bit less density. I also tweaked the density shader colour roughness down a tad so to smoothen out the cloud features. Looking at real world examples (I have a really good view of lots of billowy cumulus where I am), I seem to be at least hitting similar features. Plus, I've increased the haze density in the atmosphere. The picture is looking much better now, and all that is left now I think is tweaking the rain a bit and concentrating on the objects. I'll also see into adding more to the cirrus.
Yes, this is looking mighty impressive now.
Indeed it is. It's going to be a winner. The contrast is great. Wouldn't you raise your POV just a tad? I think the spiky grasses in front don't need to be so 'up front'. They distract a little bit from the wide and dramatic vista. Be sure to post big when finished!
It is going to be a very nice render, nice already. Full size will be great. I feel the cloud-tops are a little hard/dense but it's all there!
I'd love to see this in a wider shot, maybe 16:9, 16:10 ratio.
Cool, I like it a lot. :)
Okay, I'm playing around with the scene a bit for now before going all out for a full render. I've increased the POV, added a bit more haze, and added an extra object (care to guess just what it is? :P ) so to help build up a better contrasting foreground. I've also adjusted the grass population, and tweaked the size and variation of the population. The rest was slight modifications on the postwork, for example, using a toned down hard light layer instead of a soft light layer, so to bring out a little more colour and contrast. Still figuring out how to eliminate the noise on the rain, though I have some ideas. For the mean time, another image to pick apart:
I would add just a few more pines. Looks ready for a full render to me.
I actually prefer the scene without the pine, as it feels more open then, and the pine hides a bit of that awesome cloud and throws the balance of colours a bit too. But it's your scene!
looking real good, love the rain/clouds...bigger is gonna be a winner!
looks fantastic so far. If I may say so, I suggest to reduce the saturation of the yellow on the ground, and also reduce the postwork glow on the ground. On the clouds, this works well!
Raytracing the sky and compositing afterwards would help with the noise in the rain-sheet, uncheck 'render surface' on the planet node. Or you could wait on the possible renderer updates, that Oshyan talked about recently, which would let you choose which parts/objects use the raytracer and which parts don't.
Quote from: dandelO on April 21, 2010, 10:19:31 AM
Raytracing the sky and compositing afterwards would help with the noise in the rain-sheet, uncheck 'render surface' on the planet node. Or you could wait on the possible renderer updates, that Oshyan talked about recently, which would let you choose which parts/objects use the raytracer and which parts don't.
I'm doing a larger render now with increased settings, but the noise issue was to do with the extra perlin fractal I put into the rain. I've removed it and the problem was resolved. Only problem I've had with the first initial larger renders was the fake stone surfaces, and after fixing the issue, then having problems with the displacement I've put in. I've left the fake stones without extra displacement, but I'm certainly going to go over how I deal with surface layers and displacement distributions.
One thing I've noticed is that when distributing a surface layer, displacement applied directly on the surface layer is not mapped to the coverage blending shader. I have to put the displacement as a child layer. Only colour distribution and child layers are affected by the coverage blend shader. Is there something I'm doing wrong, or is this an ongoing problem or an actual feature?
Alright, I've done the big-ish render at 1280x720 initially, and will probably do a 1680x1050 pic later. Overall, I tweaked various aspects, relocated the pine tree, and tried adjusting the postwork a tad so the ground isn't as saturated or glowing as before, whilst maintaining that really gorgeous look on the clouds. I bumped up the GI with this render and in 1 hour and 49 minutes, I got a real nice look on the clouds. Only one bit on the clouds I'm not that happy with, but I'm not sure on how I'd remove it. I might do some cropped renders to see just if I can do anything. I think I do have a winner with this one.
EPIC WIN.
Sweet looking! I like the old pine where it is. Looks like it's been there forever!
excellent!
Yes really sweet !
Only the grass in the lower left distracts me a little still , but this image looks so refreshing :)
Great job!
I very much like it, copied it to my folder of 'nice works by others'. Good that you removed the tree.
QuoteOne thing I've noticed is that when distributing a surface layer, displacement applied directly on the surface layer is not mapped to the coverage blending shader. I have to put the displacement as a child layer. Only colour distribution and child layers are affected by the coverage blend shader. Is there something I'm doing wrong, or is this an ongoing problem or an actual feature?
Is that so? I'll have to check that, never noticed it (I think).
you have to uncheck "only breakup color" in the surface layer, if you want the information coming through the displacement port to be broken up by the breakup shader, too.
Regards,
Frank
Hey Frank, never realized that, so that's what it's for. You learn something every day.
Quote from: FrankB on April 22, 2010, 02:42:28 AM
you have to uncheck "only breakup color" in the surface layer, if you want the information coming through the displacement port to be broken up by the breakup shader, too.
Regards,
Frank
Funnily enough, I still tried that and seemed to still see the same issue. Which of course puzzles me. I've tried putting the blending mask on both the fractal breakup and blending shader inputs just to check if it had anything to do with that.
Great work!
Quote from: Bluefinger on April 22, 2010, 05:26:03 AM
Quote from: FrankB on April 22, 2010, 02:42:28 AM
you have to uncheck "only breakup color" in the surface layer, if you want the information coming through the displacement port to be broken up by the breakup shader, too.
Regards,
Frank
Funnily enough, I still tried that and seemed to still see the same issue. Which of course puzzles me. I've tried putting the blending mask on both the fractal breakup and blending shader inputs just to check if it had anything to do with that.
for the breakup shader to take full effect, you need to decrease coverage in the surface layer to 0.5 and fractal breakup to 1.
Otherwise, the breakup shader will only have a limited effect, simply speaking.