I could have included this in another couple recent threads, but it seems distinct enough to fit on its own. It seems to me the Cloud Settings should have dependant changes, which are related to when one setting is changed in the slide bars so that the interdependency would fit the real world. But...
Since we do not have any clear direction about a couple of these settings, I am hoping Planetside will answer this pretty easy request. I know many of us have some ideas about this, but hearing from someone in the development team explain these inter-relationships for Lighting in the clouds could change our world.
What are these settings and how do they relate to each other?
- Sun Glow Amount
- Sun Power
- Light Propagation
- Light Propagation Mix
- Fake Internal Scattering
- Environment Light
- Environment Light Tint
Bump for prosperity.
Peace...etc.
Is it possible these questions are unanswerable?
I posted a similar question some time ago and there were some example images posted which did clarify a little but not that well...
Shall try to dig it up with the search.
In the meantime I'll try to answer them myself:
1) glow amount is how much glow (not the strength --> less glow is only glow on part closest to the sun, much glow is glow all over it)
2) strength is how strong the glow is
3) don't know
4) don't know
5) Fake internal scattering is what it says: with this setting the inner side of the clouds is lit up. Lower this value and the inner side of the cloud-shapes will darken, increasing contrasts. If you have very dark cloud colors and increase the fake internal scattering you can end up with white clouds with darker edges. (a question posted over a year ago)
6) Also what it says: how strong the enviro light affects the cloud. Simply put: the higher the value the brighter the cloud.
7) Goes along with the previous setting and determines the color of the enviroment light affecting the cloud. You could use a blu-ish or yellow-ish tint to simulate either atmospheric depth or sun's glow when sun's at lower angle.
These are all my interpretations of course and they seem to work fine to some extent.
I also would like to see some staff jump in to describe the 3rd and 4th setting and also to correct me.
However, we might have to wait for the official TG2 manual when the final is being released, some time :)
Martin
Thanks TU.
I would really expect that someone on the Planetside staff would not only answer my questions, but be able to clearly clarify how these settings relate. Better yet, I would expect some sort of relative adjustment programmed in so that if one parameter is changed it naturally affects others. This would be like real life. Just in case that isn't possible, let's please get a really good handle on these settings.
It's the same with the Density Shader, which was thankfully asked about in another thread recently and could be answered there. Then, we would have an accumulated understanding to create really good clouds in TG2. And others might see this and actually want to try TG2, too. No joke. :o
I see what you mean and why you want those relative adjustments. It seems indeed very handy, but on the other hand this way it is all very versatile.
I think, like you said, a clear clarification of these settings and how they (inter-)relate will be most useful.
QuoteBetter yet, I would expect some sort of relative adjustment programmed in so that if one parameter is changed it naturally affects others.
Nooo, please not! This is already happening with the atmosphere settings: If you change the "Bluesky horizon color" the "Bluesky additive" value changes too. And the same goes for the "Bluesky density", changes there affect the "Bluesky additive" value as well as "Redsky decay"...
With the classic Terragen a lot of my renders had absolutely unrealistic atmo settings but looked great. Realism is in the render not in the settings! Want to do a realistic
looking sunset? Forget realistic values but go for what your eyes tell you.
As regards relative adjustments I think that is a good idea but as with the "Blue Sky Additive" and "Red Sky Decay" relative linking sometimes there are times where I want to be able to switch off the link. A toggable relative adjustments would be a way forward.
Richard
Then, maybe a checkbox for relational to switch this on or uncheck to turn off. ;D ^^
Quote from: AndyWelder on August 18, 2008, 09:43:17 AM
Forget realistic values but go for what your eyes tell you.
I most heartedly agree on a check box for the Red Decay setting.
@Tangled Universe, thank you for sharing your insight on these settings so far.
Quote from: calico on August 18, 2008, 09:53:54 AM
Then, maybe a checkbox for relational to switch this on or uncheck to turn off. ;D ^^
What? Like the one we used to have in 0.9x ;D
I believe I know what they are:
* Sun Glow Amount
Almost like TU wrote, but still slightly different. The glow simulates how much the glow falls off with the distance from the render camera. If you increase the glow to - say - 10, then you'll see that the lit side of the far away clouds almost don't glow anymore. They look grey. If you want all clouds uniformly lit and glowing, regardless of their distance, you'll set it to 0. I usually decrease it to a much smaller value than the default. 0.3 usually is a good start for me.
* Sun Power
Like TU wrote: this is how much the clouds glow. It's almost as if the final brightness of a cloud = sun glow amount at the cloud's relative distance * sun power
* Light Propagation
This factor determines how much of the sunlight passes throught the clouds. You'll notice the difference from the underside of a cloud. Say you have a 3D cloud 1500m tall, and you look from under the cloud towards the sun. Change light propagation to e.g. 20 and you'll see how much the sun shines through, compared to the default value of 2. However, I couldn't notice that it would actually affect the shadow lightness on the ground.
* Light Propagation Mix
This factor determines how much the cloud is lit from the underside as a relation (mix) between light propagation and fake internal scattering. The default value is 0.125, which means that the final cloud brightness is 1/8th from light propagation, and 7/8th from fake internal scattering.
* Fake Internal Scattering
In the real world light is scattered as it passes through the cloud, and some rays finally make it to and through the underside of a cloud. Fake internal scattering mimics the lighting of the cloud's inside.
* Environment Light
* Environment Light Tint
Both as TU explained.
Cheers,
Frank
Ah brilliant Frank ;D Thanks a bunch!
Reading your explanation about sun glow amount, I can now inmediately see why I have certain lighting problems.
The explanations for lighting propagation and mix sound very logical.
I had almost the same thoughts about the propagation, though less detailed, but I wasn't sure enough to try to explain here earlier.
So if I'm correct the light propagation mix should always be use between values ranging from 0 - 1.
Martin
Quote from: Tangled-Universe on August 19, 2008, 06:34:24 AM
So if I'm correct the light propagation mix should always be use between values ranging from 0 - 1.
Yes, that would be logical. Although possible, with values beyond 1 it becomes harder to comprehend what the factor does to the result :-)
Cheers,
Frank
Thanks for the explanation, Frank!
Great, Frank!! This helps a lot. Sort of helps readjust my puzzle pieces. ;D
Yes, true. But you'll find that having an understanding of the parameters and actually making them play in concert to your advantage in a live project are two different stories :-D
The nice beginning is having the information. It's like learning a new program without knowing how it works...oh, yeah, that's right - this is what we're doing. ;D
Sorry for not responding to this one earlier! From what I can see and know myself Frank's explanations are good (no surprise ;D). I'll try and have Matt check-in on this to verify though.
- Oshyan
No problem, Oshyan. Frank's explanation gave very helpful assistance. Anything more you can tell us is great.
Once Matt has reviewed it and suggest potential changes, ... someone should create a node reference for the cloud layer node.
Regards,
Frank
Don't worry, the node reference will include this kind of information. ;D
- Oshyan