Due to floraworks having negotiations with Xfrog we are no longer, currently, able to purchase from them.
My questions to Floraworks. Does this mean that the black Friday offer is no longer going to happen? When will you be back online so we can buy some plants? Also what are these negotiations with Xfrog about? Floraworks must be REALLY worrying xfrog. The floraworks plants look just as good as the xfrog plants but they are sold at a fraction of the cost. How can xfrog possibly compete?
Thanks
Yaay. God bless the little underdog ;D
Looks like Floraworks may have hit a nreve with their generous offerings. Good work guys.
Iain
Thanks for the interest :). The negotiations are ongoing, and I can't talk about them in detail right now. This means that, yes, the Black Friday sale will be cancelled. However, we'll hopefully have some more news for you soon, and if it's possible, we'll definitely hold a similar sale later on in the holiday season.
In the past I always used to look a the xfrog plants with envious eyes. They were really nice high detailed objects but they cost an absolute fortune. It's fine if you wanted to buy them for use in say vue to use in a pirates of the Caribbean film but for the humble hobbyist the prices were normally just to high to justify. So I used to survive on the free models I could scrounge from the internet, sometimes you could find a gem, like models from Klass, but generally these were of a lower quality than you get could from xfrog.
Then a chappie called lightning turned up and all that changed. Teaming up with o_b they went on to form Floraworks which provides high quality models at affordable prices, not just for professional use but at prices the average "Joe the plumber" could afford.
I hope these negotiations turn out to be a positive thing for Floraworks and their customers in the end, we will have to wait and see.
Good luck Jack and o_b and hope to see you back online and back in business soon. With Christmas fast approaching I'm hoping to have a bit of time over the holidays to get some rendering done and I'd like to buy some trees from you guys.
Yeah. Good luck to Floraworks.
I really want to know what this is all about when possible.
- Terje
Damn, this sucks that the site is closed for purchases. I don't understand why, if there are just negotiations going on between Floraworks and XFrog we can't buy plants? Also wondering if we are we allowed to use the plants we already purchased in our scenes? Hope this works out well for all involved.
Sounds to me as if Floraworks must have violated XFrog copyrights - why else would it be shut down? Probably used XFrog to create some of the models, in violation of XFrog's license agreement.
Xfrog have done this before. But I hope it works out for floraworks and they can be online again soon
Mick
Not to dissuade caustic pessimism ::) , but Lightning uses about three or four packages to create trees and has been very careful about copyright issues.
Quote from: buzzzzz1 on November 28, 2008, 09:32:54 AM
Damn, this sucks that the site is closed for purchases. I don't understand why, if there are just negotiations going on between Floraworks and XFrog we can't buy plants? Also wondering if we are we allowed to use the plants we already purchased in our scenes? Hope this works out well for all involved.
You can, of course, continue using all plants that you have already purchased.
Again, sorry to have to hold some stuff back for now, but I'll let you guys know as soon as possible.
Quote from: old_blaggard on November 28, 2008, 12:39:29 PM
Quote from: buzzzzz1 on November 28, 2008, 09:32:54 AM
Damn, this sucks that the site is closed for purchases. I don't understand why, if there are just negotiations going on between Floraworks and XFrog we can't buy plants? Also wondering if we are we allowed to use the plants we already purchased in our scenes? Hope this works out well for all involved.
You can, of course, continue using all plants that you have already purchased.
Again, sorry to have to hold some stuff back for now, but I'll let you guys know as soon as possible.
Good news, thanks!
Thanks for this news, O_B. Hope it goes well for you and lightning.
Lightning has been awfully quite since this was posted, did He fall off the face of the earth or something?
hello guys thanks for all your support sorry i have been so quiet lately i have been really busy ::)
Well for starters i have been offered a job as a modeler at greenworks i am still undecided whether i should take it or not. they really want me to modify existing plants to bring them up to scratch with the quality of my own models.
floraworks has been a real strain for me over the last few months and even before that. me personal life has suffered alot because i spend so much time on the computer i have fallen out with friends and even family and my school marks have plummeted.
and i do not really fancy spending my entire 8 weeks of my summer sat in front of a computer. so for now floraworks will be down until i can sort out some things with greenworks etc.
stay tuned
jack :)
Well Jack,
That's good news in a way. Definitely don't let your school work down, but at the same time, this is a great opportunity!
Congrats! 8)
Sounds like they are terrified that your trees are going to kill their overpriced DVD business. If you do end up doing work for them, I am not a lawyer, but make sure you don't sign anything that says you cannot make and distribute your own trees! What better endorsement of your work than the competition trying to poach you. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
I wish Jack all the best in whatever he decided to do. If it means cutting back or stopping Floraworks all together due to real life issues I can totally understand that. Being offered a job at green works is a testament to how good this lad is at what he does.
However, speaking selfishly for a moment, this is bad news for the Terragen community. Floraworks offered a quality product at reasonable prices. With them potentially out the picture now it means that green works has little to no competitor and can continue to price their products at very high prices. This means to a lot of "hobby" users of terragen it's very hard to justify spending that much on plants and may have to do without in the future.
Quote from: lightning on December 03, 2008, 09:03:25 PM
me personal life has suffered alot because i spend so much time on the computer i have fallen out with friends and even family and my school marks have plummeted.
and i do not really fancy spending my entire 8 weeks of my summer sat in front of a computer.
CGI as a paid job, sucking the life out of your world? How strange.... ;)
Jack, I suggest you simply slow down and concentrate on the other stuff for a while. No need to quit, just pace it more, I'm sure we'll all live. Plenty of time for 16 to 20 hour shifts later.
I guess Greenworks are saying you cant sell your models, or at least those modeled with X-Frog. Real shame since yours are way better than the one they sell on their dvd's. What will happen to the store regarding the models made with other software, surely you can still sell those? To be honest I would take their offer, its almost like the CIA employing a hacker, better to keep the real threat under close scrutiny :) And your not going to get an offer like that many times in your life. Good luck what ever your decision.
Richard
It's a great compliment for you. Asking you to get their models up to you quality... Wow!
I'd say you should take the opportunity, but only with good agreements about worktime and private life.
Congrats anyways!
Quote from: cyphyr on December 04, 2008, 03:55:25 AM
I guess Greenworks are saying you cant sell your models, or at least those modeled with X-Frog. Real shame since yours are way better than the one they sell on their dvd's. What will happen to the store regarding the models made with other software, surely you can still sell those? To be honest I would take their offer, its almost like the CIA employing a hacker, better to keep the real threat under close scrutiny :) And your not going to get an offer like that many times in your life. Good luck what ever your decision.
Richard
I can't imagine that Richard. They can't prohibit people to sell models created using their software. That's where they made the software for!
Roughly put it could also mean, for example, that we aren't allowed to sell our renders as posters because we used Terragen to create them.
It's a product of creativity, produced using tools/programms like Xfrog.
If Jack used existing Xfrog models, modified and sold them at floraworks,...well...then you're probably right.
Jack: like others said, whatever your decision is, all the best with it. Just take your time to overthink your situation and don't let other people decide for you or put pressure on the time you need for your decision. Like Moodflow said I certainly wouldn't let school down, because it's something you can always fall back on in the future, you can rely on it. It's indeed a great opportunity and probably very tempting :)
Mohawk is right about working out an agreement on worktime and private-time.
Good luck!
Martin
Good to hear from you Jack and thanks for the explanation. Martin said it, besides you are too young to let one thing tie you down this much. Family, Relationships and your Education should be top priorities. Good Luck in whatever you do.
Lots to think about then, Jack!
You really must have them running scared. Remember though, you could keep Floraworks going and it(and all your plants) would still belong to you, or, you could model for GW and be working for them, who would, in turn, own all your models!
Tricky but, it's a really great oppertunity for a job.
If you didn't already have Floraworks I'd say it was a no brainer, as it stands though, it's a hard decision: Keep what's yours and build an empire or, fold to the Bigman, for more money in the short-term. Good luck, whatever you do!
Thanks Jack for the update. I'd say someone in your shoes should slow down (like JimB mentioned) enough to think about what you can do with your life. Don't get stuck doing work you'll not like and take the advantages you can.
You're a great modeler and changed the face of Planetside's TG2 for all of us.
Jack, just a few words for someone who's been following your 'adventure' with interest.
First of all, it's a great situation to be in, to be offered a job without seeking it out in the first place. Second, you are still in school and this should be your priority. Getting an education is something that's very hard to postpone. On Floraworks, I think you and OB have gotten a blazing start and I'd hate to see it die. Of course it's of great benefit to us hobbyists, who can barely afford TG, if at all. From a financial standpoint, you'll have to ask yourself what you think your business can generate vs. a job at Greenworks taking into account time spent in either capacity. Then there is the business ownership vs. working for someone else issue...
Here's what I will tell you. If Floraworks keeps going, I'll make sure to make a purchase as a small statement of support. I am sure I won't be the only one, either, especially if you decide to make up for the cancelled Black Friday Special :)
Good luck!
I don't really understand. Greenworks is offering you a job, but why can't you keep selling your plants?
As for the job offer, if I where you, I would have said yes, but that's just me.
You have to do what you think is best for you and your future.
- Terje
And now my 2 cents on this.
First: School. No Greenworks now. It would be a bad deal no matter how much they pay you.
Second: When you finished school, you will have increased you modelling skills even further. If Greenworks still exists by then, they will still want you, I reckon. If they have someon else by then, it's not the end of the world.
Third: IF they still want you by then, they will want you very badly. Which puts you in the position to negotiate to run your own modelling business next to your normal job. Alternatively, you could work as a freelancer for GW (improving their models and whatnot), and still grow Floraworks. Another Alternative would be to license greenworks as a reseller of your models. You could go for that last option right now, earn royalties on your way, and it's a win-win situation for both parties.
Good luck,
Frank
First off, congrats on having your skills validated by as someone said, "being poached by greenworks"...a fairly high compliment to your skills I'd say.
In view of that I'd have to agree with the well thought out views of FrankB in the post preceeding this one...sound advice indeed. Once again congrats on the cool offer.. ...
Another thought and perhaps I shouldn't think so much? but, I do understand you prioritizing your time more wisely and not having time to create new plants. However, if you haven't violated any copyrights against XFROG you should be able to continue selling the Plants that you've invested so much time in creating. I and others were happy to finally have a place where we could purchase individual plants at a reasonable price instead of having to purchase a full CD of plants from XFROG. I think I would reconsider opening the site back up for sales. Screw XFROG!! Something just seems to be missing from this whole situation?? I might be totally off base but I just had to mention what I'm sure others have been thinking, but didn't want to ask.
Cheers
Yeah I don't quite understand why you can't sell the items you've already created. Surely the job offer and lack of time have nothing to do with selling your existing items. Unless there is some other reason you've had to take the store offline?
Congrats dude, i say take a good holiday, the weathers been great so far this summer!
I am also curious as to the issue of Xfrog tree output for sale. According to this response from Greenworks, this is acceptable as long as you don't sell pre-made models, textures, etc.:
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=5461055&postcount=19
Maybe Greenworks changed their mind since they made this post?
Quote from: SilverCity on December 07, 2008, 07:19:47 PM
I am also curious as to the issue of Xfrog tree output for sale. According to this response from Greenworks, this is acceptable as long as you don't sell pre-made models, textures, etc.:
Hi SilverCity.
Yes it's curious why floraworks have stopped selling their products. For some reason both guys have declined to comment on why they won't\can't put the store back online. There must be some other reason why this is the case and until they decide to enlighten us we will just have to continue to wonder when the store will come back online, if even if it will.
So lightning or o_b, any more info on this?
Quote from: SilverCity on December 07, 2008, 07:19:47 PM
I am also curious as to the issue of Xfrog tree output for sale. According to this response from Greenworks, this is acceptable as long as you don't sell pre-made models, textures, etc.:
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=5461055&postcount=19
Maybe Greenworks changed their mind since they made this post?
I am sure that he received a "stop it or you'll spend the next years in court" offer-he-could-not-refuse from Greenworks.
Remember that even when a behaviour is well within the limits of the law, when you are attacked by the legal department of a significant firm you will be simply sued you into poverty or defeat.
Bye >:(
Quote from: latego on December 10, 2008, 06:09:35 AM
I am sure that he received a "stop it or you'll spend the next years in court" offer-he-could-not-refuse from Greenworks.
Remember that even when a behaviour is well within the limits of the law, when you are attacked by the legal department of a significant firm you will be simply sued you into poverty or defeat.
Bye >:(
Well if that's the case why don't they just come out and tell us and be done with it, why all the secrecy?
Without an official statement we don't know if the store is going to re-open, or if your theory is correct, be shut down forever. So we are left in this limbo of not knowing. Both guys are active on this forum and have obviously seen this thread so they are choosing to not answer for some reason.
Quote from: reck on December 09, 2008, 03:44:51 PM
Yes it's curious why floraworks have stopped selling their products. For some reason both guys have declined to comment on why they won't\can't put the store back online. There must be some other reason why this is the case and until they decide to enlighten us we will just have to continue to wonder when the store will come back online, if even if it will.
So lightning or o_b, any more info on this?
The lack of an explanation, however, does a disservice to lightning. It gives the impression that he did something wrong (maybe he didn't have a legal copy of Xfrog, maybe he sold "tweaked" pre-made Xfrog models, etc.). I take him at his word that everything he did was legal and I wanted to purchase some of his trees, so I hope at some point he can get his store back online.
I think that for others who may want to sell their own Xfrog creations, it would be nice to get some clarity on exactly what the EULA allows for in these situations. I'm not sure I'd want to pay for software that prevents the sale of whatever you create with it.
.....The thing of him using existing xfrog models was only a rumour at the beginning of this topic. Why is it now being taken as fact? He's already made a post in this topic that Greenworks have offered him a job and he is taking his time to consider an important decision.
Quote from: PG on December 10, 2008, 07:24:39 AM
.....The thing of him using existing xfrog models was only a rumour at the beginning of this topic. Why is it now being taken as fact? He's already made a post in this topic that Greenworks have offered him a job and he is taking his time to consider an important decision.
Exactly my thoughts.
waiting...
Sorry if I gave the wrong impression here. Because lightning stopped selling his models, I wondered if Greenworks had changed it's policy on the sale of Xfrog trees that one makes entirely on their own. I may wish to sell or buy Xfrog models in the future, and I was confused as to what the EULA allowed for. I have considered buying Xfrog and I wanted to know what their stance on this was. Given what was posted on the CGTalk forum, I thought lightning was cleared to sell his tree models, and I just found it odd that he shut his store down.
In any case, good luck to lightning. I still wish I could buy some of his great tree models:-)
Quote from: SilverCity on December 10, 2008, 08:24:37 AM
In any case, good luck to lightning. I still wish I could buy some of his great tree models:-)
Yep same here. Guess there are a few Floraworks fans here, that's why we want to know when we can give you our hard earned money :D
Just wanting to drop in a word here. I'm sorry that it's taken so long for us to get back to you, but we're in fairly complicated talks right now. It's unclear exactly where things will be going, and I don't want to say anything specific until we have a clearer picture because I don't want anybody making any false assumptions or jumping to any conclusions. Again, thanks for your support. Floraworks hasn't forgotten you, and you'll all be the first to know once everything is completely worked out.
Thanks for the update o_b, I hope the talks go well.
I'll keep an eye on this thread for new information as and when it becomes available.
Generally when this kind of thing happens, the participants are made to sign an NDA - non disclosure agreement - until the final decision is made and signed off.
So I would assume until they have finished discussing whatever they are discussing, no one is saying anything, because they are legally bound not to.
Which isnt going to stop anyone speculating, but no point hassling them about it. As has been said, they will tell us when they can.
You will just have to be patient I think :)
Looks like the store is gone now, all I'm getting is a 403 error now :'(
Is this the end?
Hope not!
Or is everything being majorly re-jigged?
Hope so!
Richard
Maybe Lightening struck the server? :'(
we seem to be painted as the bully on the corner so i thought i should speak or continue to be trodden underfoot. lightning modded our existing trees and sold the results. that is not really Kosher meat.
You can build whatever you want with Xfrog and sell it, but not by starting with our labor-filled products or parts thereof. To get more complex, he obtained all of our libraries from a warez site. to get more complex, i could go a lot further about legal questions, but instead of raising a large hammer, i thought it might be interesting to discuss if it might be possible to work together. because we do make some efforts to fine tune our models into each target software, but its a lot of effort to do that well. just to tune each model into Vray for max, for example, means 2000+ models each individually tuned. as well to further mod with poly tools of various software packages, we do need people who have some talent. but as for poaching him, or slamming them because they are better quality - sorry, thats not it. lightning, with training, could get close to our modelers but he is not close to being there yet - we are discussing training him. as for XfrogPlants being overpriced DVDs - they are $ 2.50 a tree on DVD. as for being an unfair Goliath - our modelers worked hard to build our content and occasionally we have to step up to the plate to protect their work. it is not exciting for anyone. and occasionally our modelers want to buy plane tickets and visit the person in question.... we have been in 3 lawsuits and we won all 3, and i can tell you first hand, its a very big pain in the asp to defend digital copyrights but we are committed to doing it.
the news from us - please look very shortly for all our models in TG2 format as a set of lowcost DVDs. it has been slow coming but it will be out in January.
We have been very supportive of Terragen, and close friends with Matt, and we want to see everyone able to easily use our models inside Terragen.
stewart mcsherry
ceo | xfrog inc.
503 boccaccio ave
venice ca 90291
310 933 5949
Very interesting. Without question taking your copyright models, modifying them and reselling them is clearly a violation of your terms of use and you would be well within your rights to want that stopped. I am quite confident that the community here was under the assumption that all the models created were made from scratch.
Where exactly does this leave the people who purchased any of the Floraworks packages, and what is the status of any of the plants that were freely distributed here on the planetside forums?
In regards to the "overpriced DVD's" it is likely that your packaging and marketing is at fault for creating that image. If you were to split up the DVD's into individual sets that were distributed digitally at reasonable prices I would imagine you would have much more success in the hobbyist market. For me personally I have no problem buying a set or two a month if they are the $2.50 each you mention, but I would have a tough time justifying to my wife that I just dropped a few hundred dollars on digital trees. Generally speaking when you buy a bundled package you expect it to be cheaper than the sum of its parts. Your mention of lowcost DVD's may be a step in the right direction (and I am interested in seeing what these are all about), but I think you may be shooting yourself in the foot if you don't also sell them as digital downloads.
-Ryan Archer
Hmm, interesting and thank you for stepping up and giving us your side of the story.
I was planning to launch a tree model site on a very similar vein to Lightning's but stopped when floraworks3d was taken offline by your legal teams actions to await developments. I'm intrigued as to how you knew he was using XFrog products or (pardon my assumption) did you "shoot first and ask questions later"? By that I mean than when you take out a legal injunction on a party who you think "may" be infringing your copyright, to force them to cease trading, unless they have the legal muscle and finances to challenge you it is a "given" that they will simply roll over and you will win. They simply have no choice! This is not to have a go at you but rather just a statement of how things work.
So whats the solution ... ?
If I (or anyone else) was to set up a business selling tree models what form of proof do you need from them to hold off any legal action?
For my self I don't use Xfrog, couldn't get the hang of the demo, but rather I use a combination of Lightwave, XSI and a variety of plugins, TreeDesigner and TGen amongst others. With these I can make a wide variety of tree, bush, grass and cactus models. You can see some early samples scattered about the file sharing section of the forum if your interested.
No one would want to go through the pain, hassle and expense of a long (or short) legal dispute so what would you recommend as an effective way forward.
Once again thank you for your time and comments.
Seasons greetings
Richard
Interesting point.
How about being able to buy those trees digitally by selecting only those which one wants and creating discounts for amounts. For example - discount for buying at once 5, 10 or 15 trees etc. As RArcher said - it would make things easier for hobbyists. And a quick download right after payment verification. After all - we don't need whole DVDs with couple of formats.
How about making an account system. One creates an account on xfrog, buys four trees and they are added to his account and he can choose what type of models to download - tgo's, 3ds, whatever and then he can access them any time by just entering his account.
Similar system works on Steam considering games. People have their accounts with games attached to their accounts. Games can be downloaded through Steam if one has bought it.
Maybe invent something similar to Steam or talk to Valve for ability to extend Steam functionality.
There are many ways of distributing things as long as you don't want your models to be designed only for professionals.
Well, since Stewart seems fine talking about this out in the open....
Yes, Jack did indeed use pirated models as a basis for his plants. This was as much of a surprise to me as it is for all of you, I'm sure. Additionally, when there were concerns raised about this by some people upon the opening of the store a few months back, I asked him about this directly, and he denied at that time that they were illegitimate. I just want to make it perfectly clear that I had no knowledge about the illegal nature of Jack's models before Stewart confronted us. At Jack's request, I didn't discuss this in public until we could get everything worked out (see below); he hasn't replied to me for quite a while, though, so I no longer feel bound by that request.
All of the people currently in possession of Floraworks plants will be allowed to keep them - Stewart and I worked that out over email a while ago. People who have already purchased or received our models may continue to use them in their artwork without fear of legal repercussions, as long as they conform to the Xfrog license agreement.
The site went down because Jack stopped paying the hosting bill, and he has not responded to any of my emails in the last couple of weeks asking him to pay it, despite still being active on the forums. I don't know what's up there. Yesterday the hosting account was completely taken down, so the domain now points to the GoDaddy default park page and all of the Floraworks email is offline.
Stewart and I were discussing using the Floraworks site as the basis of a Greenworks/Xfrog store, where they would be able to sell their models individually as downloads. They already sell some of them on Turbosquid, but selling through Floraworks would both give them more control over the presentation of their models and would be much cheaper (Turbosquid takes 50% of your sales). I think that this would be a great idea, both as a Floraworks guy and as a Terragen artist on a budget. However, I still haven't heard back from Stewart about how he wants to proceed in that direction, so I wouldn't hold your breath.
Again, thanks for all of your support through this. I have to admit that I'm more than a little frustrated with the dishonesty and lack of communication during this adventure. In spite of this, regardless of where things go (if they go any farther at all), I'm still glad I had this experience and I've learned a lot from it :).
Told ya so.
:P :P :P
All those who jumped on my neck when I pointed out the obvious may now eat crow.
Too bad, o_b. I think you were clearly the victim in this. I would have said so sooner except the general mood here seemed one of denial.
Thanks for the clarification, Stewart.
Why doesn't Xfrog sell their own downloadable products on their main site? You can break up the DVD's into smaller bundles and keep 100% of the profits. It often doesn't make sense to buy an entire DVD of trees, when all you need for a particular job is 1 or 2 specific trees or plants. Hobbyists and freelancers can't always afford to drop hundreds of dollars on plant models.
Stewart,
I can't wait. I already have your basic tree pack and love all of them...only to want more, but $$ have prevented. I understand you're in business, nevertheless.
Quote from: xfrog on December 23, 2008, 01:59:28 PM
the news from us - please look very shortly for all our models in TG2 format as a set of lowcost DVDs. it has been slow coming but it will be out in January.
We have been very supportive of Terragen, and close friends with Matt, and we want to see everyone able to easily use our models inside Terragen.
stewart mcsherry
ceo | xfrog inc.
503 boccaccio ave
venice ca 90291
310 933 5949
o_b - I'm sorry to hear about your troubles, yet you have a bright future. Keep at it. Something like this doesn't mark us; it makes us stronger and your integrity will only prove useful. Why would anyone want to deal with anything else?
OB, seems you have a busyness opportunity yet, with a digital plant selling site. If only Steward would want to use the Floraworks site...
Good luck with that!
(By the way, is this the reason Lighting is no longer a member here?)
Stewart,
First of all thanks for coming over here and explaining what the situation is. The reason I started this post a month ago was to find out where us fw customers stood and know we know, shame we were left hanging for such a while though waiting for the truth to come out.
Stewart I will echo what other people have mentioned and that is to please make your TG2 objects downloadable. I don't want to mess around with shipping and DVDs.
Regarding your prices I think i'll just quote RArcher because he sums it up perfectly.
Quote from: RArcher on December 23, 2008, 02:38:14 PM
I have no problem buying a set or two a month if they are the $2.50 each you mention, but I would have a tough time justifying to my wife that I just dropped a few hundred dollars on digital trees.
Also this sounds like a good idea.
Quote from: PorcupineFloyd on December 23, 2008, 03:06:16 PM
How about being able to buy those trees digitally by selecting only those which one wants and creating discounts for amounts. For example - discount for buying at once 5, 10 or 15 trees etc. As RArcher said - it would make things easier for hobbyists. And a quick download right after payment verification. After all - we don't need whole DVDs with couple of formats.
Quote from: old_blaggard on December 23, 2008, 03:21:33 PM
Yes, Jack did indeed use pirated models as a basis for his plants. This was as much of a surprise to me as it is for all of you,
Yes it was unfortunate it turned out like this o_b. It looked like such a promising business venture with lightning handling the objects and you running the website/business side. Just a shame it turned out we were all misled.
Quote from: PsyOp on December 23, 2008, 03:51:06 PM
Told ya so.
:P :P :P
All those who jumped on my neck when I pointed out the obvious may now eat crow.
OK so you were right when you said lightning wasn't being completely honest. It just seemed like you'd joined the forum just to tarnish his "good" name and we jumped to his defence. One questions though, how could you have known what he was really up to? and wasn't your initial accusation regarding the pirated nature of the software he was using rather than the trees?
It wasn't terribly difficult to figure out if you know anything about the subject of modeling. This is an individual who just a few months ago was so ignorant of modeling that he was including .mtl files with his .tgo's, not realizing that it's part of an .obj file pair and totally irrelevant to a tgo. (And not realizing he was tipping his hand as to the original source of some models.) This is the individual who just a few months ago was openly bragging about the fact that he'd bought modeling packages from warez sites and that he'd been using student licensed packages to produce product he was trying to sell commercially. (No, I'm not going to dig back and find a link.)
And voila! He went from ignorant crooked noob to highly respected (well, by those who don't know any better) modeling expert in the space of a few months, as well as coming up with the funds for commercial versions of all the programs he was using in the same space of time, despite having complained of poor student syndrome. (Oh, that's right - his uncle bought the software. I wonder if the uncle even exists?)
The only thing more remarkable than the sudden emergence of this 'expert' was the degree of gullibility displayed by the suckers in this thread. How naive (or willfully stupid) do you have to be to buy into his crap in this thread? Oh, yeah. He's suddenly the modeling god and xfrog needs him to straighten out there product. And you saps actually bought into this blatant BS from an ignorant, crooked 16 year old. His scam couldn't have succeeded without a willing and gullible audience.
Frankly, I'm not surprised this happened here. I even recall a couple of older individuals who hang here taking our 'expert' to task after he bragged about using warez, telling him he would ruin this site. But the truth is that PS's marketing/sales ethics have been pretty dubious, too (or maybe we all missed that commercial release a year ago). The sad fact is that the questionable ethics displayed by PS itself no doubt encouraged him.
Like I said, I think o_b (and of course XFrog) were the real victims here. Too bad, o_b; live and learn, and better luck next time.
PsyOp stop being such a jackass. You're right, we did believe that he had developed as a modeller but we don't build profiles of people to track the integrity of their statements over time. I've got better things to do. He said he made them and I had no reason to think otherwise. If you wanna portray yourself as the internet P.I. then that's fine but don't drag other people into it. And what the hell has any of this got to do with Planetside?
damn... too bad for both sides... :(
I'd personally feel better if this topic was locked and closed: Everyone makes mistakes. Move on.
Will Greenworks still optimise their product for Terragen?
I agree with JimB. Locked would be useful and nice.
3 for 3 on locked...let's move on.. ...