A new commission for a 3x12m museum wall. I have great difficulties getting these people to look right, and I know, maybe render them elsewhere and comp in, but I'd really like to at least try and do it all in TG.
Folds in clothing look good in ZB (or Poseray for that matter), but they are quite lost in TG. Struggling with hair to, but learning a lot while working on it.
Ground needs much work still, as all else ;)
another museum pjt! Great. I loved the early one a lot. Good start for sure.
Quote from: Dune on April 13, 2018, 12:57:05 PM
Folds in clothing look good in ZB (or Poseray for that matter), but they are quite lost in TG. Struggling with hair to, but learning a lot while working on it.
Hmmm, could you show an example image of the folds in ZB or Poseray?
Quite the challenge, great start!
Hair is one of the harder things to accomplish in Terragen. Which explains why so many male objects are bald.... :)
Great work....my only comment is that the blonde's expression looks like she is in pain. ;)
Maybe the pot's too heavy for her.... I'll make screendump of the folds in ZB.
You realize, of course, that making convincing people is the hardest thing to do in 3D software. You might try to fake subsurfing scattering for the skin, don't ask me how. Maybe you can generate an extra layer of fold-like structures for the clothes in Terragen, and apply them gently over the folds that already exist. By the way, I saw your work in the Limburgs Museum a few years ago, in fact, this was the most important reason for my visit. It's incredible that you've managed to do this. My compliments!
Great start.
Thanks guys. And thanks for visiting the museum, René. It's quite something, huh? I had a lot of render help from some of the guys here. You have to go again for the Venlo medieval city, 12x4m, backlit. In fact I haven't even seen it myself, but it's not nextdoors.
Btw. here are some ZB renders.
The only problem (if there really is one) with the clothing I see is...Do you have a way to assign the weight of your cloth? For example, silk, denim, leather, linen? Whatever you have done here looks very silky and falls nicely, but I would expect a little more coarseness for fabric in this time period. Can you find a bumpier diffuse texture? Woven texture would be very primitive here, I would say. If it is animal hide, which would be smooth would work, but it is way too soft and thin.
I don't mind the hair but rough up that parting down the center bit. Fluff that up and give it some uneven spikes.
Oh btw, I was a licensed hairdresser for years, and you are correct, modeling hair is difficult even when you have a clue. :)
I'd render the characters elsewhere and composite.
It'll eliminate the manequinn skin look and allow for some subtlety in the cloth.
I'm a lightwave guy, so I'd do it in LW and Octane. Use the Terragen render (or out put a TG spherical render minus the vegetation) as the GI map. The GI or AO buffers out of Octane will bring out those shadowed areas of the faces for more realism.
The female character in the white dress looks like she's no stranger to preacher curls. She'll kick your ass.
Thanks for your input! I'd really have to dive into comping and rendering in LW, but the trouble is that I have these subtle skinfaults and dirt on clothes as tgo shaders. I haven't a clue how to achieve that in LW (yet, but I'll get into it). But perhaps my time before deadline is too short to get into extra learning curves.
Btw. LUVS; these are renders without any texture. I do have coarse linnen as texture, with bump (and dirt), in the TG renders. And hair modeling is something I still have to get used to. As a former hairdresser you'd love the fibermesh in ZBrush ;)
Wow, pretty damn good. I think a per object option for Ambient occlusion would help the folds problem....
I did try mapping the depths in ZB and adding this as color darkening in TG, but that wasn't as I hoped for. One thing that may have lightened the folds too much is an increase in GI (to get lighter tree canopies, and shadows overall). I'll experiment a bit more.
The folds in the fabric look good in Zbrush and I can see why that is not the case in Terragen. The shiny texture in Zbrush makes the folds stand out better. Perhaps if you adjust the texture and lighting in Zbrush during sculpting to the Terragen version, you have a better idea of what the end result will be in Terragen.
If your are using a Matcap material in ZB then this has baked in lighting. You could do that, too.
AO masking and deriving an AO image to combine with your texture in TG would be something
worth to try as well. And/or painting AO.
For the hair you might consider to paint it traditionally or at least refine it that way.
Just my two cents.
Thanks guys. You're both right. Maybe the folds need to be exxagerated. I've now put a wrinkled cloth bumpmap across, on top of the cloth texture itself, which give more definition, though it's not really accurate of course. And I don't want extremely high polycounts, so don't want to sculpt any wrinkle. These people are about 100Mb now.
I realized painting in some extra hairs is definitely easier and faster after the main render is done.
Here's another person I just made. The young hare (and the clothing) is not yet really good, but I'll work on that.
Good skin on the guy and really nice hair on the hare...
Skin looks better in the last image.
Wasn't there a thread about skin? Hannes had a good one if i remember right?
I think the skin looks great here. My solutions sometimes looked good and sometimes didn't. Since there is still (!) no real subsurface scattering it depends on the object if the fake SSS works.
I'd say in this case it's as good as it can be.
Slowly it's taking shape, but still a lot of stuff to handle. I'm not unpleased with the skins, but the clothes are no good. Some hair needs change, the right kid is ugly (left also a bit), stuff in wooden trough should be clay, I need some wetness where they worked with the clay, some fresh pots, smoke from the earth kiln (maybe I will comp that in, so I need a small, whirly smoke column and an alpha, or I piant in), more small grasses or other to cover bare ground, stuff happening near the houses, some cattle, the right house has a texture error. And lots of small things I will change in post, like the pops of flat hay on the roofs don't cover it entirely as I wish.
No post on these yet, but had to cut in two, to fit here.
And right side. Any additional comments are very welcome!!
Wow, you did such an impressive job on that hunter guy... Now he looks as if he was rendered in DS with the 3Delight render engine. Which is good. Great accomplishment as for TG-only rendered person!
Frankly, I don't know how you guys make your groundcover so nice. Maybe it's a matter of diversity - I always put about five species of grass and when combined, they always look like English lawn in the end... :P
Thanks Andrej. Actually I need more groundcover to cover all bare ground in the front area. These are I think 5 grasses and one flower. Along the brook I planted another species (just one is already doing nicely). I may add some more, and I want some yellow flowering plants. I'm also keen on making some orchids for the very front. You need some very different species to get diversity and use PF's to get uneven mixes.
The left tree will be cut by some guy I still need to make, there will be a 'hunebed' (grave), and some already cut tree remains, etc.
It's "Andrzej". ;) Though most foreigners address me as "André" which is fairly decent too. :D
Even despite a few empty spots, I still think that the foliage looks alright. After all, sometimes you get bare ground between the grass IRL.
What is this red circle on the side of the building doing? Just a placeholder?
No, that's where I need to change the texture. Sorry about your name's omitted Z, I'll keep it in mind.
I've made some very nice low grasses and some orchids (Dactylorhiza maculata) to be added.
Looking really good and you know best re: foliage but I'd dirty up the bare feet a bit. They look un-naturally clean in the situation.
Looks fantastic, Ulco. But you're right, the folds look strange. No idea, what this is...
Quote from: bobbystahr on April 17, 2018, 10:55:06 AM
Looking really good and you know best re: foliage but I'd dirty up the bare feet a bit. They look un-naturally clean in the situation.
Good point!
ok, they people look like freshly scrubbed, but the dynamic here is killer. These custom poses and plant objects make a huge difference. I am sure you'll get the clothes to look more realistic. It would not be as noticeable on a smaller scale, but if this thing is 3m tall, then yes you'll need better quality. Epic render, as usual!
Good idea, Bobby, thanks.
Small test of my new treecutter, and an orchid.
love the orchid, but I've always loved orchids...interesting 'lumberjack'....needs sweat on his brow...heh heh...
Nice1 !
Some more tests...
That guy works fast! All very nice, and I do like the bangs! :) Lots of great progress.
Just beautiful, a real inspiration.
What kind of beasts are those in the second image? Boars?
Yes, recently domesticated wild pigs. I turned the left one a bit in the meantime. And I have to work fast, because deadline is end of next week or so, rendered at 24000px wide.
If I were you, I would modify the second lady from the right. The one with a bright shirt. I don't know why, but her hair looks kind of strange... like a bunch of straw put together. Also notice her feet - somehow it looks to me as if she had hooves... :-[ Maybe change the feet posing or rotate the model a bit.
You mean this one, or the one with the pot? This one has a bit fluffy hair indeed, which I may change. The other has it tied to the back of her head. The circled feet look a bit big indeed. They are rough leather boots, and the right foot looks very large (which it isn't really). Perhaps there's a stone just at her toes... Perhaps I'll try one without the boots (just set opacity to zero).
Fine work and I always appreciate your images because they tell each time a story
I found the AO masking in ZB and it sure does a good job at getting more depth in the folds. That was a good idea.
And another small test. Still work to do (on the handfull of poly's, skintone and the dress, e.g.). With the deadline next week, I can't afford new learning curves I'm afraid, so it'll be full TG.
Rocking result Ulco...deadlines sometimes suck the creativity out of a project but you'll be fine....
Great works! People are very realistic too!
David.
Last concept/WIP before the final render will start. Cut in two again. I had to blur some areas, otherwise I couldn't post here. This is rendered in 2.5 hours at 0.5 and 5. Some minor things I want to change.
The big central rock is an old grave, btw. (hunebed). I had first made it by 2 simple shapes (one for the hill, and one for vdisping the entrance), and some painted areas on top to show top stones (just texture), but later build a real hunebed to sit in that hill.
And the right part.
Fantastic progress, Ulco!
Wow, veg as always is awesome and good job on the bare feet. I also like the sweaty shine on the guy who just ran down a hare. Great job on that thatching.....
24000x6860px at 0.6 and 6 + soft shadows rendered in 25 hours. Not bad at all. Used 18gig. Unfortunately some textures were unattached when the file was opened on another machine with all objects and textures similar, and I still wonder why this happens occasionally. I had to re-render parts, but with such fast rendering it's not bothering me. Now just hope colors match a bit, as I didn't use GI cache.
Anyway, it looks pretty awesome, if I may say so myself. I could of course have rendered at 0.8 and 16 or so, but it's 'just' a backdrop anyway.
I can't wait to see it on the museumwall. Some minor postwork to be done. Here's a few details. I'll add some more later, if there's interest.
Good job Ulco. As per GI cache, I once saved a cache file and then used it on four separate render crops. They did not match at all. ::) So it's a good solution, not always. Strange but true.
Looks nice. I would like to see more.
Impressive and great render times for that stunning detail...more crops please and thank you. I'll just bet your chomping on the bit to see the wall....
Yep, more would be nice.
Okay, some details of the people. I'd like to perfect those in the future, but I think it's not bad within the time given to finish this. The teal is post, and so is the fraying of the cloth.
Well the cloth is great in my books...still kinda baby-faced folks but unless you're a PoserDAZ pro, getting character in them dolls is a bit of a chore. Never had any luck in my tries...guess I'm no good 'playing with dolls' as I started thinking of it, or just have a distaste for them from all my time Moderating on the Poser site renderosity. Wish I'd spent my first years in 3D learning soft organic modeling.
Indeed, considering the time frame and the fact that you are only one person doing
all of it it's definitely 'not bad'. And the next ones will be even better, I'm sure. :)
Stunning work as always Ulco !
Paul
Okay, so the museum was officially opened yesterday. Here you have some images from the wall I did, before the masses came. The lighting from behind really makes it stand out and when you enter that very dark area it seems you have a view outside. Quite pleased again ;)
Btw. the big stones are (replaced) remains of a burial mound found in the north of Holland.
Awesome :)
Wow! That is remarkably well done! :)
WOW! This is very cool!!!
Excellent work, a beautiful installation very well integrated into a museum. Congratulations.
Fantastic Ulco!! Must be great to see your work in this environment!
Beautiful, must feel awesome to walk into that...congratulations.
What a victory! In my hometown we have b/w photos enlarged to fill storefront windows at the museum. Photos from 1880s forward. Your replications presented with artifacts is awesome!
:) Another cool museum piece.
Every town should have one. ;)
Very cool! Such a big installation, impressive.
- Oshyan
Thanks all. It sure feels good, but also a bit confrontational, as you see all the things that I should/could have improved. But there was no time actually, so it's alright. I was especially glad with a total rendertime of only 15 hours or so (I believe it was) for such big and detailed image. Long live Planetside!
Congatulations, Ulco. A big and beautiful installation! :)
Thanks, Nils.
Awsome.
15 hours is quite an impressive speed record for such a huge image...way t go planetside indeed!
Impressive work.
One more (by someone else) for better size relations.
Hey - nice render - how did you do the hair of the little blonde girl between the stones in the foreground? ... only the pose of the old man model next to her looks a bit unnatural ;D ;D
;)
In fact a great exibition.
That looks fantastic Ulco, as if you just could walk into it. The people are more or less life-size, isn't it?
Absolutely amazing!
Yes, that was the idea, to have a backdrop which you feel part of, so I made the people more or less life size (they were a bit smaller back then). I also had to take care that the lower part was 12m wide in the terrain, same as the wall, for the right sizes of the grasses and herbs.
The girl's hair was a pain to get right :P