The latest e-on newsletter reads the following in the main article:
Quote
The Perfect Introduction to 3D
Create vast expanses of terrains, add trees, select the best point of view and render hyper-realistic images of your landscapes in moody atmospheres... in a few mouse clicks.
With a rich but incredibly easy-to-use feature set, Vue 7 Pioneer will let you create breathtaking images and animations of your own 3D worlds within minutes!
Try the Open Beta, Get the Full Product for FREE!
The Open Beta of Vue 7 Pioneer is a fully functionnal version, and it is totally free!
Furthermore, Cornucopia3D and e-on software are happy to offer a full copy of the final release of Vue 7 Pioneer (when available) to all users of the Open Beta, free of charge!
>> Read more about Vue 7 Pioneer at www.cornucopia3d.com/pioneer
I can't download it unfortunately :s
Since you're in The Netherlands as well, are you able to?
The link redirected to a dead/blank page...
The site is really slow today. I got to the homepage and used the link in the Advert there, and got to the same page, but this time it loaded fine.
If it doesn't work, try this link: http://www.cornucopia3d.com/products/vue/vue_7_pioneer/?page=download
Quote from: Mohawk20 on December 17, 2008, 06:03:22 AM
The link redirected to a dead/blank page...
The site is really slow today. I got to the homepage and used the link in the Advert there, and got to the same page, but this time it loaded fine.
If it doesn't work, try this link: http://www.cornucopia3d.com/products/vue/vue_7_pioneer/?page=download
That's exactly the link which isn't working ;)
But thanks anyway :)
Have you tried yourself in the meantime?
Ha! After a minute or 15 or so it suddenly popped up if I want to open or save the file :P
Guess it's just extremely busy then.
Let us know how it works.
Yes I certainly will. Tonight or tomorrow I have plenty of time to play.
The Cornucopia3D servers are currently down "due to the tremendous success of the Vue 7 Pioneer Open Beta" :(
...it does say they're working on it though so there's still hope!
Yes that sucks...I've downloaded the program but now you need Cornucopia to "synchronize" it before you can use. Why this? ??? Why can't people just use it straight ahead without all the hassles ???
Quote from: Tangled-Universe on December 17, 2008, 11:25:26 AM
Yes that sucks...I've downloaded the program but now you need Cornucopia to "synchronize" it before you can use. Why this? ??? Why can't people just use it straight ahead without all the hassles ???
That way they can get their fingers into your computer where they have no business.
Quote from: buzzzzz1 on December 17, 2008, 02:14:56 PM
Quote from: Tangled-Universe on December 17, 2008, 11:25:26 AM
Yes that sucks...I've downloaded the program but now you need Cornucopia to "synchronize" it before you can use. Why this? ??? Why can't people just use it straight ahead without all the hassles ???
That way they can get their fingers into your computer where they have no business.
Evil villian's
Quote from: buzzzzz1 on December 17, 2008, 02:14:56 PM
That way they can get their fingers into your computer where they have no business.
Since you will get 7 Pioneer full when out of beta and will be able to buy additional modules building all the way up to Complete, they have all the rights to check that you have a legal copy of the program.
Also, remember that only with legally registered copies of Vue you can get much of the content from Cornucopia3D, at bargain prices (just compare Cornucopia prices with, e.g., TurboSquid ones).
Bye...
I have the new Beta it pretty cool nothing to different wouldnt you think cornucopia and e-on would have made sure the servers would not overload they must of knew that their would be alot of people downloading it :-\
Quote from: lightning on December 17, 2008, 06:34:37 PM
I have the new Beta it pretty cool nothing to different wouldnt you think cornucopia and e-on would have made sure the servers would not overload they must of knew that their would be alot of people downloading it :-\
Yes indeed. When I keep in mind that, well, 99% of their (cornucopia) business relies on their site I can't understand at all that they haven't anticipated on an increase in traffic.
The synchronisation-server is down it seems...Vue 7 now asks for manual synchronisation. Luckily I copy/pasted the activation-code into notepad so now I was able to synchronize manually instead of having to wait for Vue 7 self to automatically synchronize :)
Now, let's see if Vue's any match for TG2 ;)
Hi
Server for registration is still down?
How did you get the activation code and manually enter.
Regards
Brian Cadoret
I don't know what the big deal is here, isn't there a resolution limit, no import, water mark and that sort of nonsense?
Quote from: Mandrake on December 18, 2008, 06:34:20 PM
I don't know what the big deal is here, isn't there a resolution limit, no import, water mark and that sort of nonsense?
The deal it that you can upgrade to the more powerful versions, saving the 49$ which you would have had to pay otherwise to get Poineer. If you feel that this is unimportant, I will mail you my credit card data for you to send me the 49 "irrelevant" dollars ;D
Quote from: Mandrake on December 18, 2008, 06:34:20 PM
I don't know what the big deal is here, isn't there a resolution limit, no import, water mark and that sort of nonsense?
To me there's no real big deal, it's just an opportunity to explore Vue 7's possibilities on free basis.
Yes there's a resolution limit of 1920x1080(!), there's indeed a watermark and you can import Vue objects.
I don't know if Vue supports other formats.
The first thing which came in my mind when opening the program and watching the tutorial was:
"weren't many people accusing Terragen to be just a click and render program?"
I have to say that the terrain-paint features are really nice and fast, though it certainly costs quite some practice to get a decent result. Which I wasn't able too yet ;)
I also played with the clouds and got some nice shapes but haven't been able to render them at a decent quality at all. I must have overlooked the settings somewhere but they look as grainy and undetailed as...well..you figure :)
Quote from: latego on December 19, 2008, 05:03:46 AM
Quote from: Mandrake on December 18, 2008, 06:34:20 PM
I don't know what the big deal is here, isn't there a resolution limit, no import, water mark and that sort of nonsense?
The deal it that you can upgrade to the more powerful versions, saving the 49$ which you would have had to pay otherwise to get Poineer. If you feel that this is unimportant, I will mail you my credit card data for you to send me the 49 "irrelevant" dollars ;D
You certainly have a good point here.
I got it here: http://mirror-europe.cornucopia3d.com/products/vue/vue_7_pioneer/Vue7Pioneer.zip
Thanks everyone for the details. I'm curious why this thread isn't in the Open Discussion. Not much about TG2, really.
Ditto that, feel free to move it Mr. Moderator..
Quote from: calico on December 19, 2008, 09:03:35 AM
Thanks everyone for the details. I'm curious why this thread isn't in the Open Discussion. Not much about TG2, really.
Yeah, sorry 'bout that... I thought to be discussing the fact that they stole planetsides free beta idea. But this is far more interesting to discuss ;D.
Quote from: Tangled-Universe on December 19, 2008, 05:07:37 AM
I also played with the clouds and got some nice shapes but haven't been able to render them at a decent quality at all. I must have overlooked the settings somewhere but they look as grainy and undetailed as...well..you figure :)
Usually you have to increase the atmosphere quality (Atmosphere dialog, Light tab, Quality boost). With the slider you can go from -4.0 to +4.0 and with the edit box on the immediate right you can type even higher values. If you do so, brace yourself with TG2-like render times ;D.
B.t.w., one of the dirty little secrets to get quickly grain-less renders is to use toos like Noise Ninja (technique which is also applicable to TG).
Bye!!!
P.S.: according to what I read, Vue watermark is always located in the lower right corner so, if you frame "appropriately" your render...
LOL No sweat. Just wondering. I'm not THE HALL MONITOR. :D
Quote from: Mohawk20 on December 19, 2008, 01:45:58 PM
Quote from: calico on December 19, 2008, 09:03:35 AM
Thanks everyone for the details. I'm curious why this thread isn't in the Open Discussion. Not much about TG2, really.
Yeah, sorry 'bout that... I thought to be discussing the fact that they stole planetsides free beta idea. But this is far more interesting to discuss ;D.
http://www.vue7.com/home/ - Vue 7 Pioneer for free
http://www.cornucopia3d.com/galleries/displayimage.php?album=8&pos=44&pid=26338 - cool image
Cool about Pioneer ;).
That image doesn't really grab me... the bark on the trees doesn't look very good, and there's very little contrast in the image itself.
I think it looks like a photo.
http://www.lostasock.com/.a/6a00d8345211b569e2010535df9386970b-800wi
http://image26.webshots.com/26/9/18/34/2460918340035107536ZLSIkJ_fs.jpg
Taken with a very bad camera :-\
http://www.hikingwithchuck.com/Downloads/PicsTrees.htm
@PG, I agree. I removed the link. I was in a hurry going through the first images coming up that looked similar.
I haven't seen lighting like this one above, which was made in Vue 7, nor an image of this type (of just a tree) quite this realistic in lighting and color in TG2 even once. If you have, post the link here so we can see it.
To clarify, I've seen a lot of images that are realistic with rocks in them and rough terrain or maybe even grass in TG2, but as far as a tree - not like this one.
- upon first look DO NOT DOWNLOAD THIS ! If you have have the beta 7 version KEEP IT. This ver is complete crippleware, watermarks entire image, so therefore it is useless.
One more time I wish I had not been in such a rush to try new stuff, cause it killed off my old stuff. Goodbye Vue 7. The beta worked, THIS DOES NOT.
The whole image?!?! What use is that? even as evaluation its pointless. You can't see your image. Planetside definately had the right idea. Thanks for the warning.
tried it too and the watermarks kill the all trial...
A watermark!? Seriously? How could they? What a terrible thing to do.
Sorry guys. I saw nothing on their website that said this.
Hmm, it seems it's time to change the title... add "Or so we hoped".
As I understand it the demo of Mojo World has water marks on the images it produces so there is a precedent for this kind of software! ;D
Regards to you.
Cyber-Angel
@Cyber-Angel - Do you mean precedent?
Quote from: calico on March 27, 2009, 08:55:18 AM
@Cyber-Angel - Do you mean precedent?
Thanks for pointing that typo out, corrected now!
8)
Regards to you.
Cyber-Angel
You're welcome. I wonder if watermarks haven't been the way for many software packages in demo mode. But, Vue 7...someone there should have said something about that, before we all downloaded it.
It may have some thing to do with the marketing and/ or business model for the given software in question but also one of making money from the sale of that software in the long term to recover the costs of development; it seems that there are four basic models used in the industry today, please baer in mind that is an overview:
Model #1: Time Limited Model (Then becomes Nagware, Crippleware or the like):
In this model the user is given a limited time to use the software normally 30 days but I have seen 90 day trials with/ or with out feature restrictions such as save disabled with the user reminded that they have X number of days remaining in their trial period. After this time any or all of the following occurrences may happen:
1. The software becomes Nagware and uses a pop up or other such device while the user is working that their trial is over and that they need to go and buy the software.
2. The software become crippleware where either or:
a. The software's features become further limited
b. The software will not execute on opening and the user is face with a splash screen telling them they need to buy the software if they wish to continue the use thereof.
Model 2: Feature Limited with or without use time limitation:
In this model the software is generally open for use (with some industry exceptions) without time limitations of the first model been save disabled is common, other restrictions in other software apply Silo 3D is limited in the amount of geometry (number of faces) that can be saved in its demo version, by way of example. Apart form these small restrictions users may use these demos for as long as they wish thus allowing for longer term evaluation of the software, useful for software that would take time to become fully proficient in.
Model 3: Water Marked Image (Water Mark Removed in Licensed Version) other restrictions generally do not apply (not in all cases):
In this model there are generally no restrictions on either time or features within the software and save is by and large enabled however the software generally automatically applies a watermark to an image in multiple locations on the image (Some just place a single watermark in the center of the saved image) this watermark is not present in the licensed software.
Model 4: Unrestricted Use (Non-Commercial Use Only):
In rear instances you will get a demo of a software product that dose not have any restrictions except that of been for non commercial use only, this aids long term evaluation of the software that other models do not encourage.
_______________________________________________________________________________
There are many thorny issues with all of the above and have been since the early days of computing I remember that these kinds of issues where around with the release of both the BBC Micro, The ZX Spectrum and the Commodore Vic-20 and maybe before, but that would be before my time in that case. ;D
Regards to you.
Cyber-Angel
What I don't get about the watermarks: How is this 'Free' version any different from any of their demo's or PLE's? The watermark makes it 'just another demo version' you can upgrade.
It would have been a lot better if they left out the watermark. They have these upgrade packages (and a lot of 'em), and those you pay for, so why do they even need the watermark?
The beta actually worked. With a little creativity, you could clone out or crop the logo. Saying that the "final ver" is FREE, makes everyone jump and do what I did, overwrite their working version with a crippled one. Of course "if you purchase" any expansion pack, add ons etc.. then the watermark disappears. So its actually brilliant. Advertise that you have changed your business model and coax people to download the full FREE version, which kills off any working version the user has on his system: and then you have pay to play! The deception is in the file names also. Both zips are labeled Vue 7 Pioneer. There is no difference between the beta and final, except for bit size.
*note: I get the last laugh. Use control panel remove, re-install original zip file from archive an: voila BACK. I will post on my web site for a week or so if anyone is interested. 392 MB
Let me know if you want it. I can take the bandwidth for a short period of time, but not forever.
This is on the e-on website. HA!
"What's the difference with the PLE?
Vue 7 Pioneer is a real product. It's not a trial version and you won't get any watermarks on your renders (although you do get a logo*)."
Quote from: matrix2003 on March 27, 2009, 01:30:20 PM
Of course "if you purchase" any expansion pack, add ons etc.. then the watermark disappears.
This only applies to the render-up addon.
matrix2003, try releasing it as a .torrent. It won't eat your bandwidth as much as website (as long as there will be others interested).
Or use torrent in a different way - but this depends on your morality.
Do you actually get a logo on the whole image? I haven't tried it.
The logo is lower right. If you render wide [ ] just crop [ ] No Logo !
Good point, matrix. This really isn't what I thought. A watermark tends to cover from the middle out.
The "new" version has an additional watermark covering the entire image. PLUS the logo in the lower right.
Does anyone else here appreciate how crazy this conversation is making me? >:(
yep ^^
Merci !
I hear you Matrix!!
As I said, I don't get it anymore, why the Watermark if they have a demo and PLE...?
they just do it to piss people off so much that they buy the software
look at all this you have to get to have a decent software
http://www.e-onsoftware.com/products/vue/vue_7_t_pack/?page=action#modules (http://www.e-onsoftware.com/products/vue/vue_7_t_pack/?page=action#modules)
vue maybe a great software but from my experiences with customer service it is shocking :(
And look at the prices for basic features!
$99 to be able to add populations.
Another $99 to add a painted shader, or something similar!!
But to be able to use those, you need to import objects, and that's another $129!!
For that price you have TG2 Deep + Animation, with money to spare!
And then you don't have big render sizes or good lighting, and no animation...
Bad, bad marketing strategy. Especially with such a competitor as Planetside so close behind.
yeah i agree Terragen 2 still has not had its break yet as the vue lineup has, its not really a that well known product, but i don't think it will be long when terragen enters the spot light
i am dying to see what the terragen scenes in startrek look like
lol if you want all the modules it will cost ya 848 dollars now considering the financial climate what person can afford that :-\
Quote from: wetbanana on March 27, 2009, 07:31:27 PM
lol if you want all the modules it will cost ya 848 dollars now considering the financial climate what person can afford that :-\
Well, that might actually be the underlying logic behind this...
Instead of having to buy a top product for a top price, you can download a free product and upgrade it one piece at a time for low prices. It's like how I buy and upgrade my pc's, never more than €200 at a time.
So from that point of view it's a pretty good concept actually.
Still, TG2 is more value for your money right now, and even later on as Planetside will keep a free version available with far more functionality than this Vue version.
Will you have given up TG2 if the trial version of Vue7 would have been watermark-less ?
personnaly I don' think so ;D
Vue Vs TG2 is a classic now
with fan boys and all...
let's just say their Free version sux big time and that TG2 rules :P
LOL
Quote from: Seth on March 27, 2009, 08:56:24 PM
let's just say their Free version sux big time and that TG2 rules :P
E-On software used to have a wise policy w.r.t. modules pricing. E.g., I got Vue 6 Esprit during a september sale (at half price) and then, during about one year, I got one by one the modules to reach Pro configuration.
Surely, doing things this way costed more than doing it in one shot, but the actual difference was not great (and the bons of buying things bit by bit compensated for it).
With the new price structure, it cost difference between the one-shot and bit-by-bit approches is so high that it is not justifiable. An example? if you get Pioneer and all the modules required for Complete configuration, you spend as much as getting Infinite.
The end result of this suicidal decision is that people cannot justify the modular approach and, when confronted with the one-shot prices, think twice (or more) times before typing the credit card code in the order form.
You are saying that now Pioneer has the watermark all around? Well, this means that you have to get at least the RenderUp module; without being able to import meshes, it is next to useless, so you need Import3D; Vue ecosystems are handled in such a way that even just modifying their scaling (to adapt them to your actual scene) amounts to editing, so you need also the ecosystem module. Now, you have reached 7 Esprit cost (without some modules). End result? While Vue 6 had an entry version, Vue 7 has no more it.
Matt, Jo, Oshyan... you teamed with DAZ (Carrara 7) marketing when devising E-On strategy, didn't you? ;D ;D ;D
Bye!!!
When you say that buying vue bit by bit isn't much more than buying it as one unit, well that's true but it's still $600 more than TG2. For the same features as TG2 you pay so much more and there's nothing to appeal specially to businesses. They're a waste of time, IMHO. They charge more, are lousy quality in comparison (to the extent of having painted clouds like TG 0.9 in the background and "bubble" clouds that games use for "volumetric" clouds), the only people who it would benefit are impatient businesses who would rather sacrifice stunning images for a *slightly* faster pipeline. And I did a check with Vue 6 (which I bought for some reason) and TG2. The same style image, same resolution and quality, 26 hours 15 minutes in TG2, 25 hours and 34 minutes in Vue. To me that's not worth $600.
Quote from: PG on March 28, 2009, 02:31:15 PM
The same style image, same resolution and quality, 26 hours 15 minutes in TG2, 25 hours and 34 minutes in Vue. To me that's not worth $600.
That's a good thing to know. Now I'm absolutely sure I'm not missing out on anything...
Me too. Thanks PG.
Quote from: Mohawk20 on March 28, 2009, 05:49:41 PM
Quote from: PG on March 28, 2009, 02:31:15 PM
The same style image, same resolution and quality, 26 hours 15 minutes in TG2, 25 hours and 34 minutes in Vue. To me that's not worth $600.
That's a good thing to know. Now I'm absolutely sure I'm not missing out on anything...
Quote from: PG on March 28, 2009, 02:31:15 PM
The same style image, same resolution and quality, 26 hours 15 minutes in TG2, 25 hours and 34 minutes in Vue. To me that's not worth $600.
I totally disagree about this statement.
Vue6 was a lot faster than TG2 and Vue7 (from what I heard from people I know that use it) is a lot faster than Vue6
Quote from: Seth on March 29, 2009, 11:00:05 AM
I totally disagree about this statement.
Vue6 was a lot faster than TG2 and Vue7 (from what I heard from people I know that use it) is a lot faster than Vue6
At the same quality, or at default quality? And have you tried yourself? Just to be sure of course... I'm gonna stick with TG2 anyway. ;D
yeah i tried Vue6 by myself some month ago, and it is really a lot faster than TG2.
as for Vue7, I know Darthmagus, and he really is astonished by the speed increasing of Vue7 over Vue6. check his website on darthmagus.com to have some idea f the quality of the renders...
and you should ask Buzzzzz, his Vue renders were as good as his TG2 renders, and he might give you render's time.
You can easily get obscene render times in Vue is you crank uselessly up atmosphere/antialias quality settings (something a TG user is quite likely to do just out of despise for Vue "inferior" engine ;)).
When you are creating your final render:
1) if you use Infinite, forget about default settings and customize the parameters to your needs;
2) if you don't have Infinite, Final is good enough for stills and broadcast for animations; higher settings are simply stupidly expensive;
3) tune quality boosts (scattered around in Vue) by doing small, cropped renders of critical parts (e.g. clouds);
4) consider buying noise reduction tools like NoiseNinja (there are used even by users of big renderes like FryRender).
Bye!!!
P.S.: most of these recommendations work also for Terragen or ANY other rendering program.
nice tips im a avid vue user so these might come in helpful people here are starting to get like the guys on the ps3 vs xbox 360 thread pretty pathetic :-X
Heheh, good call.
I do want to be honest. If Vue is good, then it's good, also if it's better than TG ;)
But I do think their marketing strategy was a bit wrong with this last product.
Quote from: latego on March 29, 2009, 02:50:03 PM
You can easily get obscene render times in Vue is you crank uselessly up atmosphere/antialias quality settings (something a TG user is quite likely to do just out of despise for Vue "inferior" engine ;)).
Yeah...?.? Isn't that what I was just saying? Vue's default render settings are a lot less detailed than Terragens, so if you pump them they take about the same amount of time. If you leave them as default then Vue has less work to do (especially as it has no GI pre-pass) so it'll do it faster. :-\
Exactly. I'm not looking for BS. Just what's real. Maybe Buzzzzz can weigh in on the difference in speeds. I've seen some Vue renders that are sensational.
Quote from: Mohawk20 on March 29, 2009, 07:40:50 PM
Heheh, good call.
I do want to be honest. If Vue is good, then it's good, also if it's better than TG ;)
But I do think their marketing strategy was a bit wrong with this last product.
Quote from: PG on March 30, 2009, 05:24:01 AM
Quote from: latego on March 29, 2009, 02:50:03 PM
You can easily get obscene render times in Vue is you crank uselessly up atmosphere/antialias quality settings (something a TG user is quite likely to do just out of despise for Vue "inferior" engine ;)).
Yeah...?.? Isn't that what I was just saying? Vue's default render settings are a lot less detailed than Terragens, so if you pump them they take about the same amount of time. If you leave them as default then Vue has less work to do (especially as it has no GI pre-pass) so it'll do it faster. :-\
Actually I said exactly the opposite...
I really found 2 great differences between TG and Vue (though this is likely not to be an exhaustive list because I did not spend much time with TG2):
1) TG2 terrains are much more sharper/detailed. True, because TG adds by default tiny displacement (not only bump mapping) to terrains and therefore the comparison TG Terrains vs. Vue standard terrains is totally unfair. To make a fair comparison you have to put in one side of the ring TG terrains and on the other Vue procedural terrains with displacement materials: only in this case the comparison is fair.
2) Vue textures look fuzzy. True, because, for a reason I cannot fathom, textures are not only antialiased by rendering parameters, but also as texture property (in the Advanced Material Editor window, on the upper right, you will see a checkbox labeled Anti-aliased; uncheck it and rerender. You will be astonished by how much the corresponding material becomes sharper. If you have Infinite, in the Render Options windows, press the Anti-Aliasing button to open the corresponding Anti-Aliasing Options window and select Crisp as strategy, this will boost even more the sharpness of the render). Every default texture I have opened has this unwanted extra-antialising step selected... so roll up your sleeves.
E-On likes to torpedo its product... another demented setting is the new value of the quality of the ecosystem population engine: now it is just 43% and if you do not raise it, you have trees happily growing inside objects, even when told to stay away from them (raise this setting to 100%; ecosystem population is just slightly slowed ant the results are much better).
Bye!!!
P.S.: recently I bought Carrara 7 and I found that its engine gives easily very sharp renders and noticed that the terrain fedelity to externally generated terrain maps is just unbelievable; the down side is that things that are just a few clicks away in Vue require some actual work in Carrara. For example, you have not ecosystems as materials: you create Surface Replicators, add them the objects to replicate and then, if required, edit the shaders which control object placement. The end result is as powerful as Vue one, but much more work intensive.
P.P.S.: Vue looks intuitive but it is not. You have to learn a lot in order to be able to make it do exactly what you want. The largest Vue tutorial site (http://www.geekatplay.com/) has 107 different tutorials in just the generic area; then you have specialized interests! The reality is that if you want to attain a certain effect, you have to put into action the required machinery; it will be presented to you in different ways in different applications, but at the end, there are no free lunches...
I've never tried Carrara...not that I remember ;D.
Terragen and Vue can't really be compared, which I think your post shows. They're built in completely different ways, Terragen for quality, Vue for production speed. You need to double every quality setting in Vue just to get close to the quality of TG2 and then the speed goes out the window.