Last before final image for the book that I will share with you guys. Late medieval times, same area, different POV. First WIP for layout. LOTS of work still!
Hey Dune isn't this very orderly agricultural scene looks odd for medieval times?
Just a question though...
Yeah, the fields do look a little 'modern', but since Dune is illustrating this for Archaeologists and Historians his 'facts' are probably very accurate (not to speak for him of course). The history of agriculture in Europe is an interesting study in climate change and the evolution of the local societies use of 'labor'. Here's a link to a short overview of what was occurring:
http://facstaff.bloomu.edu/hickey/to%201650%20lecture%209.htm
Interesting to note that the year 1650 was the approximate beginning of a 'mini' ice age in Europe which further impacted the burgeoning agricultural technologies. Sorry to ramble on. As always Dune's forays into historical illustration are incredibly fascinating.
It's not at all surprising to see the work of ancient native American farmers and their accurate attention to detail while cultivating their farm lands during the period of about 600 through 1,400 AD. This type of common-sense intelligence prevails throughout the world as a survival mechanism.
Their work developed more than 2,000 miles of irrigation ditches around and through the Phoenix, Arizona area all the way to the Colorado River. Today, modern man has built many concrete canals over those ancient ditches providing fresh potable drinking water, and water for crop irrigation.
Re: https://www.google.com/search?q=ancient+irrigation+ditches+in+Arizona&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
Interesting link, Doug. Thanks. Indeed, agriculture was well organized in that period, that's what the archaeaologists are trying to illustrate in this series. Same area as the snowy 800 scene, but with the camera on the opposite eastside looking west. Small village moved north 300m, and the whole 'high' (very relative in Holland) area taking into production. Mainly rye (summer and winter), so the fields will be quite monotonous, I'm afraid (easy though). Some flax on certain fields.
More people, and more sheep, so the sandy heathland on the right is overgrazed and due to open up. Deep tracks made by carts going north (Groningen). The open sand eventually would endanger villages centuries later, and therefore, at the beginning of the 1900's State Forestry plants enormous amounts of trees, which are also welcomed as poles to keep coal mining tunnels in the south of Holland from collapsing. So, there's a little history ;)
Awesome topic ;)
Update. Still needs color changes, buildings, people, carts, cattle, and far (fake) trees.
Good God those changes are really nice!
This is planned out well; and, so interesting to see it evolve.
I'm still impressed once again with the area and the worries of detail in your images !
Yeah, I know what to expect from Ulco these days. Still every time I see something like the latest render I am awestruck. The only thing to consider would be maybe some imperfections in those geometric shapes to break things up a bit and make them appear more natural.
As it happened, I just added a fractal warp to break the edges of the fields ;) Which I also gave a more mature rye color. Building medieval sheds now.
Looks fantastic!
It takes awhile to view your compositions with all the details to see; and, the variation of vegetation and structures. At some point in time, you need to write a book about your projects; how you do them; and, some stories as to how they unfolded.
Quote from: choronr on March 04, 2015, 09:55:52 AM
It takes awhile to view your compositions with all the details to see; and, the variation of vegetation and structures. At some point in time, you need to write a book about your projects; how you do them; and, some stories as to how they unfolded.
Now that is a great idea!! I'll buy it for sure :D :D
I've been thinking about a book, same as my artbook, but just images, no stories. Maybe I will, some day.
Right now, I am frustrated; I put a population of farms and one of sheds in, took quite a while to edit them to the right area, and after my trial render, they all sit on the wrong place! >:( :( :-\ F***k
I remember someone else having this issue, and I had it before also, but I can't remember waht caused it and what to do about it.
Edited, stopped like it should be stopped and rendered.... wrong! And I prefer editing, or I would have to insert all objects one at the time.
Just re-edited, stopped editing; hit populate (which it would if sent to a farm), and they all moved back to their old place. Am I doing something wrong?
Maybe disable all vegetation pops; then, try again with the pops of farms/sheds and see what happens?
No, I just found out what happened; I had the buildings masked by sand mask, but changed the image map color to lineair. Changed the sand back and the buildings sit on the edited locations. Now I can sleep quietly :)
Good news.
Very nice images as usual. But I always want to see them with real populations for the fields. Too much memory use Ulco? :D
- Oshyan
That's something I might consider, as I'm not very happy with the edges. I find it very hard to make believable procedural vegetation for close-up to mid distance. As soon as you render small or have more overview, it's much easier.
Changed the light, I like this better, though you now miss the shining stream.
Hi
Very believable .. but I think previous light gave more contrast to your beautiful scenery
luc
Quote from: Dune on March 05, 2015, 02:23:01 AM
That's something I might consider, as I'm not very happy with the edges. I find it very hard to make believable procedural vegetation for close-up to mid distance. As soon as you render small or have more overview, it's much easier.
Changed the light, I like this better, though you now miss the shining stream.
Seed Key? I like the cloud shadows more real.
I also like the cloud shadowing and the stream looks fine without bling(sparkles) I'm guessing that real pops would on a project this size eat all the memory you could throw at it eh......
I think only the sides would need the real rye objects; the center areas are quite (or very) even anyway. I have to check what's left of it when printed.
Here's a real ryefield for comparison.
You took the straight lines out - big difference! Yeah you do see the procedural fields as clearly fake at this resolution. Also, there should be gaps here and there where the plants are trampled or maybe not growing as well. I like the thought of just populating the edges, though I imagine it would be tough to match the color for a seamless transition. And it would be a bear to create a working mask for all this! :)
Good idea about the not-so-well growing areas, usually the edges. Have to work on that. But the whole area is so large that it's hardly worth putting millions of rye plants in. Far easier to do some soft cloning in post.
I don't have the big version but I'd think it would be fairly easy to duplicate and re-size or move object layers in Photoshop. Or is that not how object layers work?
I don't know, never done layers in TG yet, but I'll probably stick to an easier method (some post), though I will try some real pops, just to see if it works.
.. as soon as I loose you a few weeks from my eyes, a new little wonder appears ... Ok - I was sure, this would happen :)
Great work!
Blooming heck.... Looks very complicated compared to what I try to achieve! Think I better not want to get to close to the coast as yet (-:
I like the idea of dense populations, certainly TG has enough horsepower. Curious to see how that would look in these scenes, but maybe overkill for this commission?
I still have to try, but I think indeed it's overkill. Hardly visible as objects, especially when it's been printed. Render resolution will be 8460px wide, but print will be at 300dpi, so much smaller than viewed 100% on screen.
I won't be using objects; too much work and not really necessary. I just softened the edges a bit and added some PF for wind-degraded rye, and a number of fields that are being harvested. Also added a field of 'hop' (which will be less green), and changed POV a bit.
Quote from: Dune on March 19, 2015, 08:42:58 AM
I won't be using objects; too much work and not really necessary. I just softened the edges a bit and added some PF for wind-degraded rye, and a number of fields that are being harvested. Also added a field of 'hop' (which will be less green), and changed POV a bit.
Agree to un necessary at the final print size...fabulous in any case.
I think that works very well. Such a joy looking at these detail renders. Yes, please tone down that poison green! :)
Minute details just about everywhere you look ...fine work Ulco.
Forgot these. I had some trouble with editing the population of village farms; on crop 4B you'll see a wrongly resized farm. I wanted to change it back, but couldn't select that particular farm anymore, whatever I tried. I could select others but not this one. Very strange, and I'll report it at the alpha forum. So I had to restore all instances and reposition/resize 14 or so all over, which worked.
Quote from: Dune on March 19, 2015, 12:01:04 PM
.... couldn't select that particular farm anymore, whatever I tried. I could select others but not this one. ...
Don't know if this is your problem or not, but I had something similar happen to me. Oshyan advised pressing the left bracket key once or twice and then trying to select. I did, and it worked. But I don't have a clue why.
Quote from: masonspappy on March 19, 2015, 08:05:00 PM
Quote from: Dune on March 19, 2015, 12:01:04 PM
.... couldn't select that particular farm anymore, whatever I tried. I could select others but not this one. ...
Don't know if this is your problem or not, but I had something similar happen to me. Oshyan advised pressing the left bracket key once or twice and then trying to select. I did, and it worked. But I don't have a clue why.
Will try this next time, cuz there WILL be a next time, I edit a pop....thanks for passing this along mate...
I don't think that'll work, as I also tried with the camera higher up, and other instances were accessible. But thanks!
I've just had the same problem with a simple shader that would not select until I used right click select and then I couldn't edit it.
This is another village and not in 1650, but 1340 (August 23), but I might as well put it up here. It's a crop of a larger image for the same book. Needs some work still, and higher detail and soft shadows for the final. I wonder why the buildings don't have darker ground inside, as you can see through some open doors. Is that because they consist of a single plane as wall and roof, not extruded as double? Easily fixed, but just curious.
That's lovely Ulco. Especially like the shadows in this one. All the people have a very 'real' effect as well.
The textures on the ground are excellent as are the colors. The shadow of the hill behind the large building is notable.
QuoteIs that because they consist of a single plane as wall and roof, not extruded as double? Easily fixed, but just curious.
Judge for yourself.The left one has no thickness and the right one has.
[attachimg=1]
Maybe your light setup?
Thanks for this, Jochen. I will check the lighting, I have an idea that might indeed be the problem!