Tried to attach two images of 375 kB each, but failed; so I do it in two batches...
Here's some quick images of what I'm studying to grasp now; tint variation in just one population of grass or tree. The grass render with a size variation of 0.7-1.4, the tree render without. More to follow...
---Dune
And the other image.
Really cool! This is very encouraging to see!
Cool. I have my own method of doing this, too. It uses PFS blenders to describe how much of any given population shader is applied to each object over the scale of the population.
Dose the transparency/opacity still work close up?
Richard
Finally, some tonal color variants in our vegetation. This looks promising. ;)
I don't know Richard, but this method is more interesting for pops than close ups. But I might check that (somehow)...
C'est jolie. ;)
So this is just by using powerfractals?
Or how do you do this?
I can't recall anymore where I asked you yesterday about whether you added color-variation per instance or over the entire population.
With per instance I mean that one instance has only lighter leaves than the other instance.
With over the entire population I mean that all the trees have mixed leaves with mixed tints.
It seems you have created tint-variations over the entire population. Correct?
It doesn't really matter of course, but per instance variation would be really awesome :)
Do you mind if I post here how I do it?
Cheers,
Martin
http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=7697.0 (http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=7697.0)
That's the one, Martin. Yesterday, I added some sample renders of what I mean. It's over the entire pop, as you guessed. The lower half of a mountain scene is now rendering, with this coloration brought into 'real life'. Autumn variations downhill, snowed upon higher up and bare trees at highest range... all in one pop. I find it quite awesome myself, although I got the impression that (for one) BigBen has something figured out as well, as has Dandel0. The problem with my method is that it relies on an image map, I cannot get it to work procedurally.
So, please do post here what your method is.
---Dune
I must rewrite one sentence; it's per instance, not over the whole population. You'll see one tree orange, the other one or two green, the third couple purple, or whatever...
That is a very interesting node 'macro' you are building. Per instance? Great stuff!
Quote from: Dune on October 08, 2009, 02:55:28 AM
I must rewrite one sentence; it's per instance, not over the whole population. You'll see one tree orange, the other one or two green, the third couple purple, or whatever...
Ah right! That changes it completely for me. At the moment I have no idea how to do that.
To get color-variations among a population is very simple. Just plug a powerfractal in between the texture-shader of the leaf and the object shader.
Then you can control coverage by using a constant color node between 0 ans 1 as a blendshader for the powerfractal.
This is unbelievably cool. One of the final points missing from TG2 (at least for me) was variations within tree populations. Especially large populations just look too uniform.
Here's a render made this morning. Took quite a while, but probably because of clouds. The foreground is not very good, but the principle is clear.
This looks very intriguing.
The color variation is coming along. With some foreground work this would be a very nice render.
So it seems that you have got instance to instance variation, very cool.
Is it that the instances inside the boundaries of the mask image get a completely new layer on top of the default? I notice some sharp cut-offs on the previews in the other thread, I take it that they are image mask borders.
If you can get this completed within TG2 alone that would be fantastic.
A new render is busy, trying to get some better foreground. Added some bushes with the same colour variation, but without the snow on higher levels. I can't wait until it's finished. Well, Dandel0, it's not exactly like that. If I tell you (all) that it's an image mask controlled by a camera above the population you might figure it out ;)
It's actually quite simple (only you have to find it); just an extra surface layer (tried a (add) merge shader, but that didn't behave consistently) in the population colour shader, (invert)blended by the image mask, and coloured by the image mask. The higher you place the camera the more the colours of the mask are spread over the population. Now only someone has to find a way to use PFs only...
I'll be back with a better image soon...
---Dune
I've got it! I think...
Here is an exceptionally simple way using the painted shader and a default merge shader(I'm glad you mentioned merge up there ;)).
EDIT: Dune, I've PM'd you. I had posted the .tgd here but it's a bit unfair to hijack your thread, sorry. It hadn't been downloaded.
[attachimg=#]
EDIT 2: The above image would have had no alpha channel in each leaf if it was rendered closeup, the transparent portion of each leaf was coloured with the painted shader, great for distance shots, I've worked out the way to return the leaf opacity channel and still have colour variation throughout, though. I needed to use a colour adjust shader (which is too high in this preview) so it returns some of the colour that was removed from the previous shot when the alpha channel was also the secondary colours...
[attachimg=#]
I couldn't just edit the last post with this larger preview as filesize was exceeded.
Also, single instances of your choice can be colour varied with these extra couple of basic red-nodes.
[attachimg=#]
Here's an update on the snowscape, and a screendump of the settings so far (in the next block, as it's too big to upload, apparantly). Why not share this indeed, it has so much potential for all who use populations... Lots to play with again. I prefer making some image maps, as I find the painted shader a bit fickle, but they both work fine, with some tweaking.
If you place your extra camera within the object nodes, it'll serve as a shortcut to the bowels of the tree from the camera. Faster access.
---Dune
And the screendump...
Thanks for sharing these insights Ulco :)
Am wondering...how does it work when you replace the painted shader by a b/w powerfractal?
Doesn't work. Both colors are mixed to a... well.. mixed color, and added to all leaves. I also tried to make a brightly colored surface shader in the shader group first, checking the color variation on ground under the tree pop, then detach it from the planet, and use it as color and/or blendshader within the tree. To no avail... if anyone can get that to work, that would be the ultimate answer.
Although I think it won't be too hard for the Planetside wizzmen to implement some readymade population variation color method in the software... given their impressive piece of software.
---Dune
Another thing you can do...
The basic setup.
Height control; either from here, or blend by a shader from the shader section... any improvements are welcome. This is just simple grass, by the way, no alpha stuff.
I think the blue leaves are my favorites! ::)
This is a cool process you have come up with. I think it would be easier using different populations, but that would take all the fun of discovery out of this. Thanks for sharing this!
I think different populations just to get color variations is way overkill. So until the process of getting variations gets more comfortable, this is a very nice approach.
A prime project for a 'Dune/dandelO' comprehensive, step-by-step tutorial sometime in the future?
I think the reason this works and Powerfractals don't is due to the way power fractal coordinates are handled. With the Image Map, you are specifying an absolute relationship between the objects and the texture being applied. With a Powerfractal it's all procedural and so it depends on the mapping (world space vs. object space for example).
Nice work.
- Oshyan
Of course, you can blend the painted shader(shown here), or image map, by a fractal itself, giving fractal coverage of the secondary colours over the entire population. Set the imagemap/paint shader as a child to a surface layer(apply colour = unchecked) and use a fractal blender on that.
You also have the slope/altitude constraints from the surface layer to play with...
[attachimg=#]
[attachimg=#]
.tgd requires Mr_L's 'Bush_01a.tgo', but will work in any other object with the same setup
[attachimg=#]
I was thinking the exact same when reading Oshyan's comment, but you put it in better words/pictures as I could do :)
Lot's of people will like this setup!
Cheers,
Martin
This is really nice and makes the populations much more realistic....but.. Would it be possible for planetside to build this sort of option in to the population controls directly? It seems like something that everyone would want to use for every population, after all this looks a lot more realistic than just having the same shade green for everything so it seems an ideal option to have built in without having to use this clever work around.
I am sure this is on a list already
It is.
Ah that's good to hear.
Good to know someone has seen "the list" Dune ;D
It hearsay... or how you'd call that.
I can confirm it is on some sort of list. ;)
- Oshyan
Quote from: Oshyan on October 14, 2009, 11:51:00 PM
I can confirm it is on some sort of list. ;)
- Oshyan
"Some sort", which means it's mentioned somewhre on the forums. That's some sort of list too... :P
Just kidding.
It would be nice to see this implemented.
Any idea when there would be a new update?
We're sorting out some fixes internally, then some more testing, and then release. No date obviously, but it's closer than it has yet been. ;)
- Oshyan
Quote from: Dune on October 10, 2009, 07:19:28 AM
The basic setup.
My simple mind is having trouble understanding this.... any help would be good. Dune your setup looks nice and simple, but the internal network of the grass I am using (Mr Lampost's) looks different and is confusing me. Screenshot attached. any chance of a walkthrough that simple people like me could understand?
Cheers,
Simon.
Quote from: Oshyan on October 15, 2009, 10:37:59 PM
......but it's closer than it has yet been. ;)
- Oshyan
:D very well phrased.
Very simple, any of these lines could be broken up by the surface shader. If you break one, only one of the grass stems will get the population variation through the surface layer and image map shader/painted shader or DandelO's additional idea with the merge shader. If you break two of them it will be more strong, because of two stems getting the color variation. All three would.. well, that speaks for itself.
You can break all by the same surface shader, and delete two default shaders. Then you start with one color stem. Or you can make three different surface shaders + three different image map shaders, for more variation, keeping all default shaders. Or use three different surface shaders + one image map shader + a color adjust, or you can adjust the color within the surface shader by the color itself or the luminosity or the degree of breakup. Lots of variation in the setup.
Is this explanation sufficient?
---Dune
Thanks Dune... I will experiment on with the info you supplied.