Autodesk has discontinued development of softimage.
People are saying that 3DMax is next. Well, people have been saying that for a while. But now many more people are thinking it too.
I say GOOD!
I like softimage and max. I always thought they had features that are really great, and better than some aspects of the soft I use. But What I have said before and what I say yet again is that Autodesk should combine the best most powerful parts of their packages into ONE single killer app... With a new EASY and intuitive UI.
Im not for monopoly. But Autodesk cannibalizing their own products and market has been stupid and bad for the industry IMHO. And I'm NO expert. But I think thats its pretty obvious running 3 or 4 of their own softs against each other has been a waist of development resources.
One Soft to rule them all! Yes. But not just from one company.
I would like to see a new maya that is all the best of auto desk. And then to see MODO get up to par beyond modeling. There is also Houdini and others out there.
But frankly, if you took the best of all of autodesks products and combined them into one new soft (lets just call it Maya 2016). Then we would really have a chance at a big step forward.
I Have really grown to hate having to use several different soft(s) to get anything done. Itas called a pipeline. Yeah, makes me want to hit a pipe ;D.
I understand that for some very specialized things one needs dedicated apps; Plants, global terrains, maybe a couple of other things like water and fire. But its more than a little irritating as an end user with limited capital and time.
Anyway, I hope things get more focused, and development happens faster. I hope they take all those programers from different departments and get them on board for a break through program. One program supporting all major operating systems. That dose everything, and does everything better. Something like this will really push the other 3D soft companies too.
I would say I am just dreaming. But sometimes dreams come true ;)... Just not very often.
Totally agree. I also struggle with my pipeline; having made people in DS, wanting to make them more efficient and smaller, I have to take them through Poseray (because ML can't read them right away), then Meshlab, then Poseray again (where I have to refit all materials, because it can't read the ML outcome), then TG, where I have to refit all parts' surfaces in a combined surface (because there are 7 parts which all need the same surface).... a lot of work, and totally confusing, because I end up with a lot of 'halfway files', of which I forget which ones to delete afterwards.
I preferred it when all these apps were owned by different companies and there was actual competition! Softimage had some really cool stuff, in particular in the last few years the ICE (Interactive Creative Environment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autodesk_Softimage#ICE_Interactive_Creative_Environment) stuff which was kind of Houdini-esque (or MEL-like I guess?), and allowed for some really impressive stuff to be just *built* within Softimage. Speaking of not having to "pipeline", how about having a nice ICE-based fluid sim right in Softimage? Sure! Want to do a Massive-like crowd sim? Why not! etc. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=do1kzR6gVYk
I am not enough of an expert on Softimage, Max, and Maya to know if this stuff is also possible (or as good) in MEL or if Max even has a counterpart to it, but if not, I do hope Autodesk incorporates ICE-type stuff into either one and doesn't just let it die.
- Oshyan
From what I have read so far, the softimage user base is pretty pissed. And I think thats rather understandable. But there is already a ton of talk about ICE!
ICE is freaking cool ;) And people are asking about it just as you did. I hope they port it (or whatever the right term is). ICE made me want to go with softimage when I was trying to decide what I wanted to learn. The UI was also very good looking.
The reason I read that MAX may be the next to die, is because it is only available for WIN. And People (rather qualified or not) are saying that if AutoDesk wants to have just one super app, it needs to be WIN OSX and Linux. Aperantly its quite hard to port Win to OSX and Linux???
But I have also read that Maya's code is super dated and messy. From what I have been reading about it, some people think Auto desk would want to build this new ONE app from the ground up, with the idea of incorperating all the best parts of their pageges by re writting them maybe with Ice?
But its all just speculation >:( Autodesk has not said what they are really doing. And anyway, whatever they do, it will probably take forever. And in the mean time, if people on the fence about things are doubtful about future support, they may go with MODO or LW, or Houdini.
Some people think they will keep MAX and Maya and nothing else. Who knows though. I just like the idea of only having to know 2-3 softwares. right now (including all the little apps + post and editing and print. I have like 15 apps I go between. It really sucks!
It will over for many of these big companies in the end in my opinion. All their apps will eventually fail if they stay with the same marketing practice.
An example of Autodesk ludicrousness is Sketchbook Pro. There's a new Sketchbook out with new features except no Sketchbook Pro, at least yet. The new version is subscription and really expensive. But forget Sketchbook altogether. This blows it away completely:
http://www.clipstudio.net/en
It's the best painting app I've ever used. Anyone choosing to use Sketchbook pro over this needs their head examined.
Clip studio (Manga Studio) is awesome. Picked it up a few weeks ago. Well priced, too.
Competition is good for the market, choices are good.
I like Sketchbook Pro. The Copic markers are very helpful and the software for me at least is easily learn-able and quick to use. I do however like Clip Studio as well. Paint Tool SAI is nice for clean lines. There is not ideal software for me digital painting, yet. Corel Painter is high on my list for realism but I am waiting for this...
http://www.expresii.com/
Quote from: ChrisC on July 18, 2014, 02:09:00 AM
Competition is good for the market, choices are good.
Yes. But Im not talking about the whole market, just one company with a lot of soft and programers.
Just imagine the power of ICE in the film world of MAYA, and the game modeling of MAX. SO ICE and MELL and Python (somehow), And all the best tools from each, in one soft with a new break through UI (assuming a lot here I know). And available on OSX WIN and Linux. Now throw Mudbox into the same program so you never have to leave the one app unless you want to. Now thats change I can support!
Get it all working, then go back in and make modeling as good as modo and there you have my super app. Now make it less than $2,000 and that my friend is a competitor.
But again, I know I just dream. :-[
All of those together (it could be) and you would be lucky if it was under 6000-8000 $ :D
Actually in the past it was much harder to buy a software at all.
It is not much spoken about but probably most people begun with pirated software.
And if you think that ones you had a specific machine to use them it was a dream then, not so much now.
http://www.3dartistonline.com/news/2013/12/the-evolution-of-cg-software/
Quote from: TheBadger on July 18, 2014, 03:47:30 AM
Quote from: ChrisC on July 18, 2014, 02:09:00 AM
Competition is good for the market, choices are good.
Yes. But Im not talking about the whole market, just one company with a lot of soft and programers.
Just imagine the power of ICE in the film world of MAYA, and the game modeling of MAX. SO ICE and MELL and Python (somehow), And all the best tools from each, in one soft with a new break through UI (assuming a lot here I know). And available on OSX WIN and Linux. Now throw Mudbox into the same program so you never have to leave the one app unless you want to. Now thats change I can support!
Get it all working, then go back in and make modeling as good as modo and there you have my super app. Now make it less than $2,000 and that my friend is a competitor.
But again, I know I just dream. :-[
I get what you are saying though. It is like there is not an ideal digital painting software. I am always caught as to what to use.
I don't think Max will be going away any time soon. There's still a lot of really big studios (mine included) still using Max whereas SoftImage isn't so widely used. In any case, I will start learning Maya sooner or later.
I used to imagine such "mega" software and that it would be perfect, but I think it is simply impractical, unless it is modular and can be bought and maintained in pieces by separate teams. In that sense you might as well just have really good interoperability functionality like FBX, Alembic, etc. And indeed you see that's the way the industry is going. A way to have the data exchange be more "live" would improve the experience, but it's not so bad already for apps that properly support these common formats.
- Oshyan
Quote from: TheBadger on July 18, 2014, 03:47:30 AMYes. But Im not talking about the whole market, just one company with a lot of soft and programers.
Autodesk didn't develop Softimage. They bought it to acquire their user base and then try to muscle them into migrating over to one of their other products. I think they planned this from the beginning. There are two different strategies for killing your competition. One is to make a superior offering. The other is to buy it, scavenge it then kill it.
Quote from: Oshyan on July 16, 2014, 03:12:26 AMI preferred it when all these apps were owned by different companies and there was actual competition!
You said it.
Quote from: Upon Infinity on July 18, 2014, 01:44:44 AM
Clip studio (Manga Studio) is awesome. Picked it up a few weeks ago. Well priced, too.
I totally agree and yes, for anyone wondering, it's Manga Studio but Clip Studio Paint is just the version from the original company. I've actually watched this app for years. I tried it way back when it was all beta and Japanese but difficult to deal with Japanese sites and software. I knew back then it was only a matter of time before this exploded in popularity. I think it's one of the best programs I ever used. Extremely good feature set, intelligently designed and efficient.
When it becomes purely about money it all goes downhill. I wouldn't buy from Autodesk. I think the same thing is happening to Apple now. I have a Mac Mini here and OSX is going totally downhill. Best version was 10.6. It's all downhill now. Audio used to be a mainstay with Apple but I've got major problems with it. Logic Pro X is a joke. I had to move to Reaper. Even Windows is better. Apple died with Steve Jobs in my opinion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcDn8gVPY_8
Quoteunless it is modular and can be bought and maintained in pieces by separate teams.
That is a GREAT freaking idea! So the new maya (or max which ever they keep) Becomes like a software hub. And then programs like TG, vue and realflow (and all the others) could just plug in. So the idea you give me is that, I can work in TG just as I do now, but then I can open maya, and from there open TG inside of maya... Or Modo or whatever... And work with my TG files in a TG environment live in maya.
yeah I know your talking about just the one soft being modular, but all soft should be this way!!!
Ok, so not really an easy thing to do. But that would kick ass.
I like the competition, I really do. But I wish the competition happened on the same landscape with a common goal. Sorta like the way they add parts to the international space station or something.
QuoteAll of those together (it could be) and you would be lucky if it was under 6000-8000 $ :D
Bringing reality to a dream, is like bringing non-alcoholic beer to a bachelor party, KAdri :P
;D
Quote from: TheBadger on July 18, 2014, 11:11:33 PM
...
QuoteAll of those together (it could be) and you would be lucky if it was under 6000-8000 $ :D
Bringing reality to a dream, is like bringing non-alcoholic beer to a bachelor party, KAdri :P
;D
:D
Sure, super flexible, broad modularization would be awesome... but I'm not sure it's feasible in a technical sense, much less an economic or generally practical one. Sounds kind of like an extended version of the old UNIX approach of "pipes" and generally modular (though in that case generally smaller, more atomic) applications. Terragen would "pipe" geometry data to e.g. Maya, or vise verse...
Anyway, it's all fantasy my friend. Alas. :D
- Oshyan
;D
I will never buy Autodesk product again. I'd rather get to grips with Blender.
Added: To elaborate, I see nothing in Maya and Max that gives me an advantage over Blender without having to shell out even more money on top or hire a programmer, and if the GUI is horrible in Blender, believe me when I say moving from Softimage3D>XSI>Softimage to Maya or Max after c. 25 years of the bliss that was the Soft GUIs is only a tad less painful. And Blender's free. And Cycles can now bake, and it's free, and it uses the GPU. Did I mention it's free? I'll be losing ICE eventually, so screw it (there was a reason why Autodesk were desperate to make sure you could get ICE particles into Max and Maya), I'll either learn how to programme or get Houdini. Never, ever, ever, ever, put all of your faith into a single company's products, no matter how much they promise you your livelihood is safe in their hands (again and again and again).
Quote from: TheBadger on July 18, 2014, 11:11:33 PM
So the new maya (or max which ever they keep) Becomes like a software hub.
And if Autodesk decided they'd prefer to concentrate on their architectural and engineering product line, everyone's screwed ;) Autodesk doesn't sell it on, they just bury it.
if anyone is really interested in a mostly all-in-one, modular approach, I'd say they should really take a close look at Houdini...
ICE was basically an implementation of Houdini's VOPs
check out the tutorials > masterclasses on sidefx.com for some amazing uses of Houdini
and there is some new stuff in v14 that will make Terragen people happy - or so I hear ;)
Houdini Engine allows Houdini tools to used in Maya, Unity and C4D...
and the new Indie pricing is pretty great...
Quote from: goldfarb on September 09, 2014, 01:35:14 PM
and there is some new stuff in v14 that will make Terragen people happy - or so I hear ;)
Yesss....go on? ;)
can't say but the beta is happening very soon :)
What's Houdini's Indie mean? And how is it priced? I can't get into that site area.
Quote from: goldfarb on September 11, 2014, 02:26:01 AM
can't say but the beta is happening very soon :)
The beta for what is happing very soon? :P
Dune, its like a hundred dollars per year when I tried it. I did not renew my copy. But some things have changed since I tried it.
If those size limitations for rendering have been lifted I may switch back to it.
+ if there is something going on between Planetside and Side Effects Software, and whatever their doing makes working with TG better... 8)
I'm totally against yearly payments for software. I may not use it for a year....
Quote from: Dune on September 11, 2014, 02:29:26 AM
What's Houdini's Indie mean? And how is it priced? I can't get into that site area.
from the sidefx site
it's basically HoudiniFX (the full version of Houdini) for $199
LIMITED COMMERCIAL LICENSE
Commercial usage of Houdini Indie is limited to following:
The annual gross revenue of commercial entities and contracting entities does not exceed $100K USD
Commercial entities and contracting entities can purchase a maximum of 3 Houdini Indie and 3 Houdini Engine licenses
Houdini Indie cannot be used in the same pipeline as commercial versions of Houdini
Houdini Indie uses its own file format for saving scenes and assets
It is restricted to 1920x1080 when rendering out animations
No third party renderers (PRman, vray etc)
Thank you, Michael.
Just to be clear so there are no false hopes, we're not Side Effects in any official capacity. I'm honestly curious about what this "good news for TG users" will be as well...
- Oshyan
Houdini 14 was released today and is a pretty big update all round...
http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3044&Itemid=417
here is a tutorial on Terrain generation that might be of interest to Terragen users
https://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2961&Itemid=410
Quotehttp://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3044&Itemid=417
HOLY COW! :o
Not that impressed TG3 can do most of that - though voxels(planet sized - ouch) and a torus would be nice.
Did you look at the first link though? the cloth and sand and wet sand. Pretty real... The pig head was funny.