e-on's Vue 6 software looks really good. Does anyone know the major differences between it and TG2? How much latitude is there in Vue to do terrain work like we can do in TG2? I'm not starting a riot or anything obsolete since the 60s. Just asking questions.
Actually, that's a very good question. I think the general consensus right now is that it's difficult to compare the two because TG2 is still in the alpha stage whereas Vue is a mature product. Vue definitely has some advantages over TG2, such as its Ecosystem stuff, better object support, mature UI, and stable rendering system. However, TG2's renderer as a whole seems to me to be much more realistic, and I don't think anything else out there can produce the awesome clouds that TG2 is capable of - not Vue (even with metaclouds and spectal atmosphere) and not Mojoworld (even with Dmytry's volumetric plugin).
Most of this stuff is actually rehashing what Oshyan has said on various forums (I happen to agree with it ;)), so I'm sure he could give a much more detailed answer if you want.
Thanks old_blaggard. I'm not in any hurry. Vue 6 was used in Pirates of the Carribean and that got my attention. I am attracted to Vue's eco-system and their finished product, but nothing I've seen comes close to the amount of flexibility in the TG2 product (for what it does in its class of products) nor have I seen this sort of support we have with TG2 anywhere (for any product ever).
I'm also impressed with TG2's ability to have such a friendly user base with loads of sharing of information as well as files, which I think shows a maturity yet to be followed by other software development worldwide. The only thing close to this quality of scientific treatment of a software application that I have experienced within the retail world has been John Carmack and his wide open freedom with information and sharing source code.
I've also been considering Vue. The ecosystems look very attractive, and it has good transparent water too. I had a play with Vue 5 before, but at the time couldn't get my head around its node networks and surfacing.
The only other thing that is potentially putting me off is whether or not it is stable. I believe there were some questions about that around the time of its release, maybe e-on have ironed out the majority of those problems since then.
All the best,
Andrew
I'm not really qualified to tell you what it's like to actually work with Vue as I've only had limited experience with it. I judge it primarily on its output; on the work that I see people create with it. Most of the images I see from Vue don't really impress me much, but it's really a subjective thing, so if the quality and realism of the output is important to you, the best thing you can do is check out some renders. E-On has some of the better examples on their website and you can find many more on the Renderosity Vue galleries and forums.
Pirates of the Caribbean is one of the very few examples of photorealistic work done with Vue and also one of the few film uses I'm aware of, but if you look at the actual use of Vue it was more limited than you might imagine. Vue was used to create 2D matte backgrounds for some scenes and there was notable post processing performed on the Vue output to make it look as good as it did. It's still important that ILM chose Vue over other products to do those elements, but on the other hand nothing else out there really could have even come close at the time as TG2 wasn't yet available and Digital Domain has control of Engen (their derivative of the "TGD" rendering engine that forms the basis of Terragen 2). For photorealistic purposes no other system even comes close - Bryce, World Builder, etc.
If you want to compare film work, Engen is a reasonably close cousin of TG2 and it was used extensively in Stealth as well as The Flags of Our Fathers, in both cases creating pretty seamless photoreal terrain. TG2 has also been used in commercials and other professional productions, even at this early stage. I think the bottom line though is that it's not as important what a big film studio can do with a product as it is what average artists can do. You also never know how much post processing was performed on something you see in a movie or commercial. So I would pay a lot more attention to the galleries of average users. DeviantArt (http://www.deviantart.com/) and Renderosity (http://www.renderosity.com/) are both good sources of large, active galleries of people using Vue. You've obviously seen what TG2 can do from the image posts here.
If Vue interests you enough to give it a try, they do offer a demo as well as a "Personal Learning Edition" (PLE) with watermarked output and a Vue logo on the renders. Both give you a good chance to get to know the Vue UI and workflow and see if you like it. There is no doubt that the Vue UI is more intuitive to some people because it's a lot more traditional than TG2. Only you can really say whether you prefer it, of course.
I don't think it's appropriate for me to comment on Vue's stability and similar details, but I think if you look at the forum posts on Renderosity and other public Vue forums over the last few months since the release of Vue 6 you should get a good idea of people's experiences with it, both positive and negative.
I hope that is of some help.
- Oshyan
Yep. This is helpful.
I'm trying to stay objective (as it appears you have done, Oshyan), but the fact is that I like TG2 enough that it will take something particularly and clearly (even rationally) either comparable and easier to use than TG2 or volumes above in terms of quality before I truly consider a switch. Nevertheless, it's good to keep our eyes open, right?
Is it not time to blow Vue of it perch and put Terragen there instead (With the final, commercial version naturally)?
So it has vegetation which is randomised every time you use it (Eco-Systems) OK so dose World Builder through the use of L-Systems older technique, same idea, maybe Terragen could have one based on Cellular-Automita or some thing.
Regards to you.
Cyber-Angel
Hi all I'm back! Anyway I have Vue 6 infinite and it works pretty well. Ecosystems is great but displacment eats up a ton of memory and some more complex scenes cuase it to crash. I use it for doing work that involves more realistic vegitation thean Terragen 2 can give at the moment and it fullfills my needs in that respect. Saddly unlike TG it does not have overhangs or Orbit renders. I could awnser anymore questions you have about it too if you want.
Regards,
Will
Hey, Will, welcome back! How was Russia?
checkout the quality of vue6 Inf.
http://wincustomize.com/skins.aspx?skinid=31875&libid=8
Yep. It's pretty nice. It's been used to do all kinds of stuff and looks very realistic.
@dhavalmistry: Hm, the grass looks nice, clouds too. But this is a rather simple scene and imho doesn't show clearly what Vue6Inf is capable of. Ok, the car and women looks nice, but on the other hand they are rather small and not really easy to rate. ;-)
Just in the interest of fair comparison it should be noted that the clouds and sky in that image are entirely photographic. They have just been used as a background for the Vue rendered elements. ;)
- Oshyan
I was just trying to show you guys a good vue 6 inf render....
@oshyan....how can you say the sky and clouds are photographic...I would like to learn the technique
Because I know Vue well enough to know it can't do that sky. ;D A very commonly used technique in Vue is to use photographic backgrounds or billboards. This was used heavily in the Vue 5 days before metaclouds came along in Vue 6 to get realistic-looking skies. Even now it is used, as in this case, because metaclouds can't quite achieve that level of realism.
- Oshyan
it could have also been done in what ever version of Vue that allows you to use other apps like Max or Maya I'm blacking on the name right now.
Regards,
Will
That version is called xStream. However I don't know of another application that could produce a sky like that either, so this doesn't make any more sense as an explanation than the much simpler photo background technique which is frequently used by this particular artist.
- Oshyan
good point. Also, just for the record, there is a VUE 6 personal edition now that is free for non commerial use.
Regards,
Will
Also for the record the "personal learning edition" always includes a Vue logo on renders, and after 30 days includes a watermark across all renders. Files created with it are also incompatible with other Vue versions.
- Oshyan
and that is exactly why we love Terragen and PLanetside so much ;)
Regards,
Will
This picture was made entirely in Vue 6 with minor Photoshop postwork - http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1439564&member
Check out his other work, if you like this one.
Very nice-looking sky in that one - one of the best Vue skies I've seen.
- Oshyan
Oshyan, I've never seen anything like this in Vue, so I asked the author about it. He said he did the whole thing in Vue 6 and minor touchup in Photoshop. His work is stupendous. The only thing - it's fairly small...maybe he sells the larger versions or else the render times are prohibitive. I wonder.
I've seen this a lot with Vue - some of the artists are absolutely fantastic, while the majority of other peoples' work is okay. I assume this is the way it is with all 3D software packages, but this contrast seems to stand out more to me among the Vue product line and users.
He certainly seems to have the hang out the Vue 6 sky system. Most of his previous skies appear to have been done with photo backgrounds and it seems he's only recently moved to Vue 6. In fact that may be his first posted V6 image, so it's all the more surprising. Hopefully we can see more examples of this kind of quality from him in the future. But I agree with you, I often wonder why there is this large disparity between levels of artists using the same program. It's true of TG2 as well, of course - look at the work of Luc Bianco as compared to the rest of us, for example. ;D
- Oshyan
...must have something to do with level of talent, though this seems like it could be an acquired skill from what I've seen. Maybe we should kidnap Luc and make him talk. "Ve have vays to make ewe tock."
That or he could write a book. LOL ;D
I can tell you guys that most of my Vue 6 stuff is not nearly that good.
Regards,
Will
Nice accent calico!
Like it - http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1444215