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General => File Sharing => Archive (Broken Links) => Topic started by: dandelO on August 17, 2008, 10:38:36 PM

Title: Caustics Shader + Shallow Water Shader
Post by: dandelO on August 17, 2008, 10:38:36 PM
No matter, I'm an idiot.
Title: Re: Caustics Shader + Shallow Water Shader
Post by: dandelO on August 17, 2008, 11:22:30 PM
No matter, I'm an idiot.
Title: Re: Caustics Shader + Shallow Water Shader
Post by: old_blaggard on August 18, 2008, 12:05:12 AM
Wow, very nice!  Thanks for sharing that.  I believe that Matt mentioned at one point that caustics were possible within TG2 for incredibly high values of GI quality and detail, but this will certainly go faster and it looks very nice, too.
Title: Re: Caustics Shader + Shallow Water Shader
Post by: Tangled-Universe on August 18, 2008, 05:26:17 AM
Quote from: old_blaggard on August 18, 2008, 12:05:12 AM
Wow, very nice!  Thanks for sharing that.  I believe that Matt mentioned at one point that caustics were possible within TG2 for incredibly high values of GI quality and detail, but this will certainly go faster and it looks very nice, too.

As a matter of fact I've been trying to test this yesterday.
I created a small waterplane with the camera just above it facing downward. Upped the sunlight's intensity to 8 and adjusted the size and roughness of the ripples so I could expect a certain suitable size of caustics.

Render the test at detail 1 and GI 8/8, GI 16/16, GI 24/24 and GI 32/32 ;D ghehe :P
But to no avail yet.
Maybe I have to make the subsurface reflective, so I'll try that.
Or I'm still not using high enough quality settings.

Martin
Title: Re: Caustics Shader + Shallow Water Shader
Post by: dandelO on August 18, 2008, 08:47:45 AM
Pffffft! I NEVER go higher than 3/3 GI. You're a braver man than I, TU! :D
I really don't think it's worth it, but then, I'm only making silly little pictures for myself as a hobby, not for commercial production. I do what's required to convince, in the fastest time possible. No physicists or directors are scrutinizing my angles of incidence, or indexes of refraction.

This faked version is really fast to render and the scales are editable through the 'constant vector 01' node values, now set to '1'.
Higher values in this node, e.g. x=2 y=2 z=2, will make caustic pattern scaled half as large as the defaults, lower values e.g. x=0.5 y=0.5 z=0.5, make the pattern output exactly double in size. In other words, opposites.

I'm really taken with the ability that TG2 has. I couldn't get quick, procedural results like I do with TG in any other program I own. As far as I'm concerned TG now makes Vue 6 seem like a toy. And people still moan about how TG takes 'too long to render' or is 'too buggy to use'. Pish! Give it a chance.
Title: Re: Caustics Shader + Shallow Water Shader
Post by: Tangled-Universe on August 18, 2008, 09:16:06 AM
Quote from: dandelO on August 18, 2008, 08:47:45 AM
Pffffft! I NEVER go higher than 3/3 GI. You're a braver man than I, TU! :D
I really don't think it's worth it, but then, I'm only making silly little pictures for myself as a hobby, not for commercial production. I do what's required to convince, in the fastest time possible. No physicists or directors are scrutinizing my angles of incidence, or indexes of refraction.

This faked version is really fast to render and the scales are editable through the 'constant vector 01' node values, now set to '1'.
Higher values in this node, e.g. x=2 y=2 z=2, will make caustic pattern scaled half as large as the defaults, lower values e.g. x=0.5 y=0.5 z=0.5, make the pattern output exactly double in size. In other words, opposites.

I'm really taken with the ability that TG2 has. I couldn't get quick, procedural results like I do with TG in any other program I own. As far as I'm concerned TG now makes Vue 6 seem like a toy. And people still moan about how TG takes 'too long to render' or is 'too buggy to use'. Pish! Give it a chance.

Completely agree with that.
The case is that there's very little documentation, only this great forum with tremendous amounts of information which you'll have to find and sort out yourself.
For new users (new TG-users and to greater extend new 3D users) this will result in a long learningcurve.
Once you're getting comfortable with it things will speed-up and you'll also learn how to avoid unnecessary long rendertimes.

You're right about that I'm crazy ;D
I just wanted to see if the renderer indeed is capable of rendering caustics.
I certainly will use your technique when I really want to apply it into on of my scenes.

Martin
Title: Re: Caustics Shader + Shallow Water Shader
Post by: arisdemos on August 18, 2008, 11:15:31 AM
Thanks for this clip, and I wil be attempting to use it in an upgrade of my first tg5 water transparency try.
Title: Re: Caustics Shader + Shallow Water Shader
Post by: rcallicotte on August 18, 2008, 11:39:29 AM
This is cool.  Time to play some more...errr, when I get my work done.   ;D
Title: Re: Caustics Shader + Shallow Water Shader
Post by: rcallicotte on August 18, 2008, 11:40:31 AM
Oh yeah, here's the Water Library - http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=4459.0
Title: Re: Caustics Shader + Shallow Water Shader
Post by: arisdemos on August 18, 2008, 12:35:34 PM
dandelO have you tried to hook this caustic effect into your waters edge fake stone clip setup yet?
Title: Re: Caustics Shader + Shallow Water Shader
Post by: dandelO on August 18, 2008, 07:03:07 PM
QuoteOh yeah, here's the Water Library - http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=4459.0

Cheers, Calico. How do we make it sticky?

Arisdemos: They work well together, I'll prepare a .tgd of both rocks and 'caustics'. Upload later. :)
Title: Re: Caustics Shader + Shallow Water Shader
Post by: dandelO on August 18, 2008, 09:24:09 PM
No matter, I'm an idiot.

Basic example .tgd attatched...

[attachimg=#]
Title: Re: Caustics Shader + Shallow Water Shader
Post by: Oshyan on August 18, 2008, 11:03:53 PM
Very cool results. The water topic has been set "Sticky".

In theory the GI may be able to create caustics, but I don't think it's really practical. Best to wait for a proper caustics solution which would not rely solely on the "fuzzy" GI.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Caustics Shader + Shallow Water Shader
Post by: Tangled-Universe on August 19, 2008, 05:00:27 AM
Quote from: dandelO on August 18, 2008, 09:24:09 PM
Although it looks like Spiderman's just been for a swim in this example.tgd,(I didn't spend much time on this ones' details. :D) it clearly shows how it works over a displaced surface.
By setting the max slope of the caustics to 90 degrees the pattern is stretched over and around the stones but, is cut off on the undersides of their curved surface. No light(or, little light) from above would shine there.
All I've changed from the settings of the original clip is: 'Constant vector 01' x=3, y=3, z=3, reduced the overall coverage of 'caustics' to 0.075 from 0.1 and made its luminosity tint 2 instead of 1.

When rocks are poking out of the water: Very close control is needed to cut of all caustics above the waterline, it's almost impossible because the water is not a completely flat plane. Any waves at all make small differences in height across the entire plane, it's tricky but it can be done convincingly(nowhere near perfectly) with some work. Easier to deal with a shoreline, just set height constraints with a little fuzz.

Basic example .tgd attatched...

[attachimg=#]

There are 2 Y-values for the heighth of the waterplane in the water-node. The lowest number is the one you should use for constricting the caustic-layer. Set it just beneath this value with a very low fuzzy zone and the caustics won't be placed upon stones which stick through the water.
Title: Re: Caustics Shader + Shallow Water Shader
Post by: dandelO on August 19, 2008, 07:47:43 AM
No matter, I'm an idiot.
Title: Re: Caustics Shader + Shallow Water Shader
Post by: arisdemos on August 20, 2008, 12:34:36 AM
Thank you for the tgd dandelO the terrain is much closer to what I am attempting and I believe it might make things easier for me. I really like the resulting caustics on your stones, now if you can only get more of the light show spread out. good luck with this addition to tg reality.
Title: Re: Caustics Shader + Shallow Water Shader
Post by: dandelO on August 20, 2008, 06:10:33 PM
No matter, I'm an idiot.
Title: Re: Caustics Shader + Shallow Water Shader
Post by: Oshyan on August 20, 2008, 11:34:37 PM
Values above one will generally be clipped, although I think if they're feeding a shader that is then interpreting it at a lower intensity it may be able to extract an unclipped range from it.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Caustics Shader + Shallow Water Shader
Post by: arisdemos on August 20, 2008, 11:51:24 PM
Any help with your caustics procedure in my image will be welcome. I am working on the file that I submitted in the tg2 discussion section on Aug. 8th, and will shortly put up the reworked version with greater terrain and water detail. The water transparency has improved to the point that I can now consider attempting your caustic effect. I will probably import your fake stone clip into this image instead of the rocks that are presently being used, and then will begin to reverse engineer your clips and tgd to get my head around this using the data you have provided us on this thread. Thanks will get back with you on this.
Title: Re: Caustics Shader + Shallow Water Shader
Post by: arisdemos on August 20, 2008, 11:58:48 PM
I am sorry I need to correct something I just posted. The image file I mentioned was put up on Aug. 9th and was in the image sharing section, and that will be where I put any future WIP on this project.
Title: Re: Caustics Shader + Shallow Water Shader
Post by: dandelO on August 21, 2008, 06:01:35 PM
No matter, I'm an idiot.