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General => Terragen Discussion => Topic started by: moodflow on November 19, 2008, 12:15:39 PM

Title: "Ultimate" Cirrus clouds
Post by: moodflow on November 19, 2008, 12:15:39 PM
Standard fractal cirrus clouds are nice and all, but still don't have that dramatic sweeping flow that real cirrus tend to have.  I've been working on a some new methods to pull this off and finally made some progress.  I've been using the apline fractal shader to warp standard power fractals, and the results are looking spectacular.

Still more work to do, but its getting there.

Title: Re: "Ultimate" Cirrus clouds
Post by: rcallicotte on November 19, 2008, 12:35:26 PM
Bary n-i-i-i-ce.   ;D

Care to share your methods?
Title: Re: "Ultimate" Cirrus clouds
Post by: cyphyr on November 19, 2008, 12:37:48 PM
Very sweet (and useful) was this what you were looking for your gray scale extraction for?
richard
Title: Re: "Ultimate" Cirrus clouds
Post by: moodflow on November 19, 2008, 12:41:46 PM
Quote from: calico on November 19, 2008, 12:35:26 PM
Bary n-i-i-i-ce.   ;D

Care to share your methods?

Yea, as described above, take a standard power fractal (scaled appropriately of course), and then warp it with a warp shader, using the displacement from an alpine fractal (scaled appropriately).  The alpine fractal will be the "warper" and the PF is the shader.  Make sure displacement values for the alpine fractal are in the 10000 range since a cirrus layer is higher.  Might take you some time to dial it in just right, but they look great.  I have another version which looks even better (at least on the sample render).  One trick is to use a redirect shader just after the alpine shader so some of the warp effect is on the X, or Z axis, to give that "flow" effect.
Title: Re: "Ultimate" Cirrus clouds
Post by: moodflow on November 19, 2008, 12:43:20 PM
Quote from: cyphyr on November 19, 2008, 12:37:48 PM
Very sweet (and usefull) was this what you wrer looking for your gray scale extraction for?
richard

Cyphyr, yes, its one of the many reasons, as cirrus clouds look just like a 2d erosion map.  I just want a procedural one so I don'thave to use image maps.  I am currently testing an image map (heck, I might try the one you posted)   :)
Title: Re: "Ultimate" Cirrus clouds
Post by: moodflow on November 19, 2008, 12:59:34 PM
Just ran a test render using Cyphyr's alpine grayscale map image he posted.  I had to tile the image using Photoshop for no seams.  Additionally, since its an image and not procedural, the resolution and detail is limited, so I had to rely solely on the alpine fractal's detail settings to break up the image somewhat.  It helped, but you can still see the limitations in using images, such as softness and flat color.  A procedural method is the way to go for ultimate detail.

Title: Re: "Ultimate" Cirrus clouds
Post by: cyphyr on November 19, 2008, 01:08:12 PM
I think your first version is way better :)
However the image I posted is only very low res (just to show the principle), maybe something could be done with a better image. That said one advantage of using a procedural method is that it could be much better manipulated/distorted with further functions.
Good find
Richard
Title: Re: "Ultimate" Cirrus clouds
Post by: moodflow on November 19, 2008, 01:15:34 PM
Yes, I am trying to get away from image maps if at all possible due to the resolution/detail limits.  Many thanks for your input on this.   8)
Title: Re: "Ultimate" Cirrus clouds
Post by: j meyer on November 19, 2008, 03:49:44 PM
Cool,something new to play with.Thanks for the inspiration. ;D
Title: Re: "Ultimate" Cirrus clouds
Post by: old_blaggard on November 19, 2008, 03:50:46 PM
Very nice results!
Title: Re: "Ultimate" Cirrus clouds
Post by: darthvader on November 19, 2008, 04:33:01 PM
nice work! could we please get a node network screenshot?
Title: Re: "Ultimate" Cirrus clouds
Post by: Mohawk20 on November 19, 2008, 05:39:01 PM
I love the new detail in your first render...
Pretty easy setup, you just have to think of using the alpine fractal.
Title: Re: "Ultimate" Cirrus clouds
Post by: bigben on November 20, 2008, 03:04:45 AM
Had a play with adapting my model to your idea.  Because the distribution shader is based on elevation, a) the alpine fractal has to be able to reach the cloud layer and b) the altitude restriction should also include the cloud's altitude.
Title: Re: "Ultimate" Cirrus clouds
Post by: inkydigit on November 20, 2008, 10:58:24 AM
very interesting results!...more food for thought!
Title: Re: "Ultimate" Cirrus clouds
Post by: moodflow on November 20, 2008, 11:31:05 AM
BigBen-

That looks superb!   8)
Title: Re: "Ultimate" Cirrus clouds
Post by: bigben on November 20, 2008, 10:27:56 PM
Thanks moodflow... another result for the forum approach.

Apart from the scale/displacement settings of the alpine fractal, you can tweak the degree of warping by adjusting the colour of the distribution shader.
Title: Re: "Ultimate" Cirrus clouds
Post by: Matt on November 21, 2008, 10:20:16 PM
Just keep in mind that the Alpine Fractal is probably the slowest of all the shaders in TG2, so don't use this for volumetric clouds unless you're some kind of masochist... :)

Have you tried using a Power Fractal displacement for the warper instead? Might be able to get similar results with quicker renders.

Matt
Title: Re: "Ultimate" Cirrus clouds
Post by: bigben on November 22, 2008, 01:55:20 AM
That thought had crossed my mind, as the slow down in the preview is quite noticeable.  Here's a comparison with a plain fractal and the unwarped cloud density shader (screengrabs to include the render times).  Without any surface shaders and only one cloud layer, the simple PF is about 4X faster than the alpine fractal.
Title: Re: "Ultimate" Cirrus clouds
Post by: bigben on November 22, 2008, 05:45:34 AM
Having a bit of a play with this model and 3d clouds.  Swapped the Tex coords with a compute normal and then added a visualise normals node.  Add a transform shader immediately below both fractals.  Animate the warping shader downwards (direction is possibly irrelevant), and the cloud density shader upwards...  looks promising so far for some very effective animations.
Title: Re: "Ultimate" Cirrus clouds
Post by: neon22 on November 22, 2008, 03:24:43 PM
I took Big Ben's tgd and wedged some parameters.
variation method and noise flavour.

I think noise = ridges, mix1 and variation = multifractal variants are looking promising
(I had to over compress slightly :( to get it to fit in 512K but you can see pretty well)
Cheers...
Title: Re: "Ultimate" Cirrus clouds
Post by: bigben on November 22, 2008, 05:54:55 PM
Interesting comparison. That'll save us a bit of time  ;)
Title: Re: "Ultimate" Cirrus clouds
Post by: neon22 on November 22, 2008, 07:34:55 PM
Animating the displacement offset in the pf shader also seems to give nice animations.